Episode 1 – Bob Dunn

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Yes. Recording now.
So hello Bob

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and thank you so much for
being here on WPMondo.

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I’m so happy that you will be
the first ever person published

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on our new WPMondo web show.
So, very welcome to you.

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I’m so happy to have you because we
have known each other for a few years

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in WordCamp and stuff, but there
are still a lot of things that

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I’m happy to discover, and I will
let you introduce yourself.

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Well, first, thank you. And, yeah, how
honored to be the very first guest.

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I don’t I don’t know if I’ve ever been
a first guest on an actual podcast,

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so this is a first
for being a first.

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So, anyway, yeah, most
people know me as BobWP.

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I’ve been around a long time since
about 2006 doing WordPress,

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and I’ve done a lot of
different things in WordPress.

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And probably more things I
failed at than I succeeded at,

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but that’s kind of
how we do things.

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And, yeah, I currently, I run a channel
of podcasts called DotheWoo,

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and it’s a mix of, WooCommerce and
WordPress podcasts, quite a variety.

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And, yeah, that keeps me
pretty busy. So I’ve yeah.

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I’ve just I have a a love for
the community and love for education.

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Yeah. Same. Okay. Actually, the focus
of this interview is, host the host.

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It means that people who usually
put the others in the light

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on their shows that,

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that I think you all deserve to be
the one that is in the light today.

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So that will be you,

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and we’ll have other famous persons
as podcasters or running web shows,

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and also in different languages. So this
one is in English. So that’s perfect.

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So maybe we’ll talk about your
podcast a little bit later and

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first focus on you as a person
and whatever you have done in

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the WordPress community and
in your life before that.

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So maybe, you started helping
people, on WordPress,

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on working with
WordPress quite early.

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So tell me about the early
days, your beginning. Yeah.

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So prior to WordPress, just
a kind of a short little history

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is my wife and I, Judy, ran
a marketing company marketing

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design company for
seventeen years.

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So we did print design for a long,
long time, moved into word oh,

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not WordPress, into the web because
I knew I had to know that,

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and I was I was more of a designer at
heart. So I went in very begrudgingly.

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I wasn’t thrilled
about code and stuff.

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So I was looking for
a way to get into it.

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Came across WordPress in
2006 and started playing

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around with it and incorporated it
into my workflow and that business.

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But as I started doing that,
I got the itch for education.

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So that’s when I started doing
workshops and doing stuff around

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WordPress because I found this new
product, this open source project,

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and thought, wow. People,
you know, this is great.

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You can actually do a nice
professional looking website,

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and you don’t really need to know how
to use code. So I dove into that.

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And by 2010, I decided
to close the other business

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and brand myself as BobWP
because I thought I’m just gonna

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immerse myself in WordPress.
And for several years then,

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it was more around consulting,
coaching, and training.

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So I worked with a lot of beginners,
ran a lot of in person workshops.

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And, yeah, over the years, just I
got out of design at one point.

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I think that might have been
around 2014 or so.

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I just didn’t wanna do client work
anymore. I was enjoying my workshops.

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I was enjoying, well, client work in
the sense of one on one peep you know,

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not doing website builds. And,
yeah, that just blossomed.

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And the more I got into it,
early on, I got into the community

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because I was involved with
some local communities.

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And once I think my very first
WordCamp was in, I’m gonna say,

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2010, I think,
in San Francisco.

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So I dove right into it right away,
and I wanted to start meeting people.

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And it was a very different
feel from what I was used to in

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conferences that I’ve gone to before,
and I thought, well, this is,

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you know, this is I like this.
I think I could get into this.

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So I started going
to more WordCamps.

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And, yeah, it just over time, I
did several different things.

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Like I said, I failed
at many things.

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I tried membership sites and video
sites and all sorts of stuff,

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and my motto is kind of, you know,
move on if something doesn’t work.

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Don’t sit there and beat
it to death instead.

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You know, try something
different, find what works.

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And, yeah, that’s kind of the short of
a long history of how I got into it.

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Yeah. And you are right. Every
non success is not a failure,

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is a lesson and to move
forward from yes. Thank you.

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So you you moved to WordPress quite early. You said 2006.

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Before that, what were
you using or doing?

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Man, I was using I believe it
was was a mix between Dreamweaver

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and what was the other one?
I’m drawing a blank.

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It was go go something. Go.
It they were programs that you

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would basically
build in HTML,

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and I was doing these horrible
sites with Flash for my own site.

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I I’ve had little letters
dropping in on the homepage,

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and then they’d scurry off, you know,
the oh, it was terrible thing.

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Yeah. I remember the.
Got a Yeah. Flash days.

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And it was but it seems so cool, but
nothing ever really looked great.

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I could just never you know, it was
like and I think the you know?

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Yeah. It was, GoLive. That was it.
Go Adobe GoLive and Dreamweaver.

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So I use those two for doing I did
some projects, actually paid projects,

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but I look back on those
sites and they were Yeah.

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You know, they were, yeah,
pretty bad, actually.

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What what I like to use
sometimes is the Wayback Machine.

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Yeah. I did find one
and it had parts of it,

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and that was enough to make me
remember the whole thing. So Yeah.

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Actually, there was a website
when I had my first, I mean,

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personal computer only
in 98 because before that,

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I was traveling the world, and it was
before the laptops were a thing.

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And I discovered in 98
a site done in Flash.

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I can still remember the name if the guy
one day hear that. It was Tom Design.

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Tom Design maybe in German or maybe
.de or I’m not sure, maybe .com anyway.

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And it was a flash experiment
or artistic way where he copied

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the like the theme or
the from a movie,

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I don’t remember
the name of the movie,

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but it was something
with Bruce Willis.

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And he made these the same with the
same music with his own image images

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So if that Tom, one
day, I loved that.

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It was, yeah, it I say, oh, what we
can do now on the web. You know?

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But okay. That was flash early days.
Yeah. And that’s what this was the thing

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It was so cool back then. It was
like, wow. I can make this happen.

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Now we look at it, and
we kind of laugh at it.

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But, you know, it’s
it was the time.

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So in 2006,
WordPress.

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So at that time, myself,
I discarded WordPress.

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I was auditing a few CMSs and I discarded it because it was not

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multilingual, and I did need that. It’s, still
not, but well, it’s gonna come.

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And I came to WordPress
in 2012,

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but you you were there
already in 2006.

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So tell me about that
those early days.

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Did you have any struggle,
or what was, like,

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scratching your head or something
to make things work,

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or was that all all okay? You
know, thinking back on it,

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I think when I first got into it, I
just kinda poked at it. You know?

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I mean, I just go
in and look at it.

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It wasn’t quite and it was
a combination really of both,

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blogging and finding
a tool for my clients.

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Because my wife was,
shortly around that time,

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she got on Typepad and
started blogging.

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And she built up quite a successful
blog there and then moved

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it over to WordPress
eventually.

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But for me, I spent probably a good
year or more just not really saying,

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okay. I’m committing to this,
but I’m starting to look at it.

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So I didn’t really wanna
build anything right away.

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I just thought
this is intriguing,

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and it was a little bit more
of the blogging at first.

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And then as I got into it more
and more, I thought, wow.

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Now I’m starting to see
these products come out,

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and I can’t remember what
year iTheme started. Yeah.

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But that was around probably
2008, and I think WooThemes,

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all of them started, and I
started looking at them and we

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bought one of their themes for
our own business website.

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And I put together you know,
it was a basic landing page,

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and it looked so good. It was, like,
better than anything I’d ever done,

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and I probably did it in, you
know, one tenth of the time.

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And that’s when I yeah.

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So it was it was a slow thing for me,
but I knew I had to get into it.

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And if I could kind of figure
out this tool and see how it

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went over the next
twelve months or so,

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it started to develop into
something that would work for

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my clients and then probably work, you
know, if I wanted to start blogging.

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And so I just you know,
from probably 2018

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is when I released I mean, 2008
is when I really dove into it.

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And then that’s couple years
later, I just said, you know,

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this is it. This is the change
I’m gonna make, the big pivot.

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Yeah.

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And you mentioned earlier
that you have been,

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to that early WordCamp
in San Francisco.

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Because, remind me, you are from
the US. Right? Right. Right.

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The, West Coast. So it wasn’t
it was a close one or fairly

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close because I met in
the northwest. Okay.

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So what did you discover there
in WordCamp San Francisco?

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You know, it was a little bit what I
said was, and to elaborate on it,

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I think it was just the feel
of the conference.

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I was used to go into very
large blogging conferences with

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thousands and thousands of people,
and it was more the, you know,

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standard conference,
I wanna say.

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You know, you you meet
people, hand cards.

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And looking back on it,
sometimes I wish I could remember

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more of the actual experience, but
it seems so it seemed different,

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but it seemed like a more
of a big networking event.

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I mean, it just the way I’m
you were able to meet people.

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The people were more, even back
then, open for conversation.

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It wasn’t like the first thing
you did was exchange business

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cards when you met somebody. You
would actually probably learn

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a little bit about them, and I think that’s
it was kind of a shock at first,

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but there was also an online
what kind of set me in motion

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for this was and I won’t
spend a lot of time on it.

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There was an online, called Biznik,
and it was localized in the US,

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but it kinda did worldwide.
And it was an online in person

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kinda meetup type of a,
a startup this couple did.

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So you would meet
people online,

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but you’d also do local workshops
and local networking events.

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So I was already getting in that
feel at the same time of a more

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community oriented rather
than just, you know,

00:13:12.388 –> 00:13:14.968
going to a business conference
and dealing with that.

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So it wasn’t it was still different
enough, but it was an easy migration,

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I say I’d say because it was more
what I realized is even after

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being in business as long as I was,
that it fit my personality more,

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a WordCamp, than a normal
business conference would. Okay.

00:13:35.058 –> 00:13:41.683
I know that there were conferences
like, NSW something Southwest.

00:13:42.543 –> 00:13:45.538
Oh, yeah. Yeah. I know. Yep. I
know what you’re talking about.

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The, Those are the kind you say
that are big and Yeah. Yeah.

00:13:49.778 –> 00:13:53.513
Business first. I mean Yeah. And I
met some of the first people.

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I went to a conference about several
times, spoke at it called Blog World,

00:13:59.558 –> 00:14:02.438
and it was this huge, huge
conference of bloggers.

00:14:02.438 –> 00:14:06.518
And, actually, that was where
very first time I met Syed from

00:14:06.518 –> 00:14:08.538
AwesomeMotive was there.

00:14:08.678 –> 00:14:13.943
And so I kind of got into
the blogging space initially and

00:14:13.943 –> 00:14:16.523
got to know more of that
on the bigger picture,

00:14:16.798 –> 00:14:21.778
but then a WordCamp was more
localized and a totally different feel.

00:14:22.638 –> 00:14:27.453
Yeah. Okay. Okay. I went in
the US to a conference that was,

00:14:27.693 –> 00:14:33.048
more about, like, marketers and
course creators, content creators,

00:14:33.108 –> 00:14:37.748
bloggers as well. It was that conference
by Chris Guillebeau called,

00:14:37.988 –> 00:14:41.203
World Domination Summit.
Oh, I’ve heard that.

00:14:41.583 –> 00:14:44.943
Well, the name is a bit
domination is a bit strange to me,

00:14:44.943 –> 00:14:49.283
but the rest you know, Chris Guillebeau
is The Art of Non-Conformity author.

00:14:49.868 –> 00:14:51.888
And there was a lot
of people there.

00:14:53.388 –> 00:14:58.553
Yeah, you can I mean, it was more like
the not the technical part of things,

00:14:58.553 –> 00:15:01.213
but the content part of
of things, I guess?

00:15:01.673 –> 00:15:05.563
But, yeah, I still have friends
that we still talk to each other

00:15:05.848 –> 00:15:11.478
from that year. I went in
2013 only one time.

00:15:11.778 –> 00:15:14.553
And it was even (before) I attended my
first WordCamp, actually,

00:15:14.633 –> 00:15:18.733
because my first ever WordCamp was
2013 in October in

00:15:18.953 –> 00:15:23.103
at WordCamp Europe in
Leiden in the Netherlands.

00:15:23.273 –> 00:15:29.528
So, yeah, it’s, it’s I came much
later to that game. Exactly.

00:15:29.688 –> 00:15:33.583
Than you. Yeah. And WordCamp
San Francisco, was, like,

00:15:33.583 –> 00:15:38.863
the ancestor of WordCamp US. Right?
Yeah. Yeah. It was. What became Yeah.

00:15:38.863 –> 00:15:42.528
I think I went to a couple of
them early on, and then I think,

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Seattle, which is where I was
closely located, and then,

00:15:48.528 –> 00:15:53.543
Chicago was another early one I went to
and stuff. And I just got the bug.

00:15:53.543 –> 00:15:56.023
I wasn’t going, you know,
up to a lot of them,

00:15:56.023 –> 00:15:59.143
but I was going to enough of
them to start to get more and

00:15:59.143 –> 00:16:08.028
more into the community. Yeah. Yes.
I realized that I will cut that.

00:16:08.028 –> 00:16:10.953
I realized that the the background
is not was not correct.

00:16:12.953 –> 00:16:15.273
Anyway, it’s okay. It’s from
the tool, but it’s okay.

00:16:15.273 –> 00:16:19.693
Maybe I leave even that in
the in the show. Yeah. Okay.

00:16:20.338 –> 00:16:25.938
So I guess one of the things at
WordCamp be is that it’s very

00:16:25.938 –> 00:16:27.778
easy to meet people
and make friends,

00:16:27.778 –> 00:16:32.123
and I can say I have friends from
so many parts of the world now.

00:16:32.123 –> 00:16:36.123
Thanks to that. Was that the same
feeling in the in the beginning

00:16:36.123 –> 00:16:39.578
in the US as well?
You had a lot of people coming

00:16:39.578 –> 00:16:45.358
from other countries, or was it
more, like, American centric?

00:16:45.683 –> 00:16:51.043
I think it was more local because
it was still that local.

00:16:51.043 –> 00:16:53.683
You know, I mean, I think in
the early years, you know,

00:16:53.683 –> 00:16:58.808
when you go to Chicago, there’d
be some people that would, yeah,

00:16:58.808 –> 00:17:03.873
fly in, but, typically, they would
fly in from other parts of the US.

00:17:03.873 –> 00:17:07.713
So there wasn’t quite
the, you know yeah.

00:17:07.713 –> 00:17:11.153
It was probably even back then,
it was a factor of, you know,

00:17:11.153 –> 00:17:15.728
do you want to use those kind
of resources to go that far for

00:17:15.948 –> 00:17:19.628
a small WordCamp and
didn’t really, I think,

00:17:19.628 –> 00:17:22.763
start touching on that till we
started doing the flagships or

00:17:22.763 –> 00:17:25.823
at least the US started
it, you know, and and,

00:17:26.283 –> 00:17:31.578
Europe and maybe started
attracting more from around the world

00:17:31.578 –> 00:17:35.758
versus the local camp. So it was,
yeah, it was very US centric.

00:17:36.458 –> 00:17:40.033
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. But that’s Makes
sense. That’s what you yeah.

00:17:40.033 –> 00:17:46.488
It makes sense. Yeah. And then you
moved to Europe. That’s recent.

00:17:46.488 –> 00:17:50.248
Right? Yeah. That was
a little over a year ago.

00:17:50.248 –> 00:17:58.203
It’s, it was, March of last year. So
or was it no. It’s actually it wait.

00:17:58.203 –> 00:18:02.188
Now let me think about that. Is it
actually no. It’s actually two years now.

00:18:02.188 –> 00:18:06.428
In 2022? Two years. Right
after WordCamp Europe in Porto?

00:18:06.428 –> 00:18:10.853
Right? Yeah. It was it’s been about
a year and a half. Not quite.

00:18:10.853 –> 00:18:14.828
Well Yeah. Not quite.
Okay. So until that,

00:18:14.828 –> 00:18:18.188
you were in the US because
I had a maybe I’m wrong.

00:18:18.188 –> 00:18:22.368
I had a feeling that you were in
already in Europe before that,

00:18:22.668 –> 00:18:27.813
but no. No. No. Yeah. It was,
it was WordCamp Porto. Okay.

00:18:28.273 –> 00:18:31.998
WordCamp Europe in Porto, not
WordCamp Porto. I should say.

00:18:32.218 –> 00:18:37.578
That was, so that was three
WordCamps ago. Yeah.

00:18:37.578 –> 00:18:41.403
That was the one that that was
actually my first time in Europe too.

00:18:41.403 –> 00:18:47.023
So, it and that’s what kind of set
the ball rolling to move us to here.

00:18:47.803 –> 00:18:53.108
Yes. And that’s when I met you.
Exactly. Yep. At the picnic.

00:18:53.108 –> 00:18:57.828
Right? Yeah. Right. Right.
Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Okay.

00:18:57.828 –> 00:19:03.523
So in between, what made
you start, podcasts?

00:19:04.143 –> 00:19:06.303
And not only
continuing on, like,

00:19:06.303 –> 00:19:10.408
your client work or design work
or website development, but,

00:19:10.808 –> 00:19:14.888
thinking now I’m going to
host a podcast. Yeah.

00:19:14.888 –> 00:19:19.233
I think it was so it was
in 2014.

00:19:20.013 –> 00:19:23.773
I’d had early on in the around
2010, 2011,

00:19:23.773 –> 00:19:28.728
I had several people I knew because I
was so much into content and blogging.

00:19:28.728 –> 00:19:33.548
They said, oh, you should do
a podcast. And I’m like, really?

00:19:33.913 –> 00:19:35.833
And they said, yeah. You
have the voice for it,

00:19:35.833 –> 00:19:38.793
which isn’t the only reason
you should do a podcast.

00:19:38.793 –> 00:19:42.073
So I told them, well, maybe you
think I have the voice for it,

00:19:42.073 –> 00:19:45.508
but I also need to have the time
and the resources and all that.

00:19:45.508 –> 00:19:48.708
So I didn’t go into it right
away when people are trying to

00:19:48.708 –> 00:19:52.663
push it in push me into it.
And I decided in 2014

00:19:52.663 –> 00:19:54.393
to try
a little podcast,

00:19:54.393 –> 00:19:57.693
and I started doing it
a couple times a month.

00:19:57.903 –> 00:20:02.408
And it was called WordPress breakdown. And it was really

00:20:03.078 –> 00:20:05.978
It was okay. I did it for
about a year,

00:20:05.978 –> 00:20:10.603
and it was like a fifteen minute
podcast where I talk about

00:20:10.603 –> 00:20:13.103
a plugin or talk about
a couple of plugins.

00:20:13.243 –> 00:20:17.343
And I realized after about a year
that I was basically doing

00:20:17.938 –> 00:20:21.458
what I was doing in my blog
post. It wasn’t unique enough.

00:20:21.458 –> 00:20:24.818
And so I said, well, I’m gonna
put it aside and wait till this

00:20:24.818 –> 00:20:29.373
idea comes to mind. And that
took about two more years.

00:20:29.373 –> 00:20:31.953
I just I wasn’t
gonna rush into it.

00:20:32.253 –> 00:20:35.373
I felt like I
wanted to do it,

00:20:35.373 –> 00:20:37.538
but I wanted to make sure I
was doing the right thing.

00:20:37.538 –> 00:20:42.998
So I started in 2016.
I actually started to DotheWoo.

00:20:43.953 –> 00:20:46.433
But then a few
months into it,

00:20:46.433 –> 00:20:50.453
I changed it to a show called
the WP ecommerce show.

00:20:51.393 –> 00:20:54.658
And did that for
about three years,

00:20:54.658 –> 00:20:58.518
which was more of a generalized
ecommerce in the WordPress space.

00:20:59.218 –> 00:21:03.238
Switched it back to DotheWoo
or restarted DotheWoo again

00:21:03.683 –> 00:21:08.643
in 2018 and eventually
stopped the other

00:21:08.643 –> 00:21:12.128
one as well as I’d done
about, oh, about five,

00:21:12.128 –> 00:21:14.468
six other little
podcasts I had started.

00:21:14.768 –> 00:21:19.188
And some of those lasted as long as
two weeks and to maybe, you know,

00:21:19.673 –> 00:21:23.033
a few months or something, and they
just kind of weren’t the thing,

00:21:23.033 –> 00:21:25.513
so I’d stop them.
But it was, yeah,

00:21:25.513 –> 00:21:30.448
it was something that I found
that I enjoyed doing, But,

00:21:31.168 –> 00:21:36.528
I shortly after I started
to DotheWoo again,

00:21:36.528 –> 00:21:41.893
I realized that I just didn’t
wanna be the only host.

00:21:41.953 –> 00:21:44.433
You know, dude, I’d been
that a while and stuff,

00:21:44.433 –> 00:21:46.693
and I decided that
I needed to start,

00:21:47.378 –> 00:21:50.038
branching out and thinking of
different ways to do that.

00:21:50.258 –> 00:21:53.798
And so that’s kind of how things
have led to where we are today.

00:21:54.673 –> 00:21:58.193
Yeah. It has grown a lot,
and you have a lot of different

00:21:58.193 –> 00:22:02.468
hosts on your show that host
themselves, other people,

00:22:02.468 –> 00:22:04.648
and I like that very much.

00:22:06.228 –> 00:22:11.103
I would like the same here on WPMondo
but in other languages because,

00:22:11.263 –> 00:22:15.203
languages is a topic
I’m passionate about.

00:22:16.063 –> 00:22:19.238
So imagine I have someone
in, I don’t know,

00:22:19.238 –> 00:22:23.318
in Hindi interviewing people in Hindi
about WordPress, someone in

00:22:23.878 –> 00:22:28.723
Filipino, interviewing people in
Filipino, other in Portuguese,

00:22:30.703 –> 00:22:33.618
Portuguese do Brasil.
Yeah. You know?

00:22:33.698 –> 00:22:36.578
And that that would be great
because there are so many people

00:22:36.578 –> 00:22:38.838
who don’t speak English,
actually, in the world and,

00:22:39.698 –> 00:22:45.403
or not under understanding enough,
to follow a conversation,

00:22:46.343 –> 00:22:49.988
especially, for me, sometimes
it’s difficult another language.

00:22:49.988 –> 00:22:51.988
Not English anymore not
in English anymore,

00:22:51.988 –> 00:22:55.528
but in another language
that I’m trying to learn.

00:22:55.908 –> 00:23:00.373
Audio only is more difficult than,
with video because with video,

00:23:00.373 –> 00:23:03.253
you can see the expression
on the face.

00:23:03.653 –> 00:23:07.348
And that was a topic I wanted
to ask you about because I

00:23:07.348 –> 00:23:12.008
know that your choice was to
do it audio only, not video.

00:23:12.068 –> 00:23:17.513
And you told me once why, so
maybe you can tell here why,

00:23:17.973 –> 00:23:20.373
for the followers. Yes.

00:23:21.093 –> 00:23:25.078
I’ve had several people try
to convince me to do this.

00:23:25.078 –> 00:23:27.158
And so when I started it,

00:23:27.158 –> 00:23:34.453
it was I come from the my
age and youth is around radio.

00:23:34.513 –> 00:23:39.973
So I loved radio, and it’s
kind of what I was brought up on.

00:23:40.168 –> 00:23:43.048
And there was something about
audio that just intrigued me.

00:23:43.048 –> 00:23:45.868
So when I got it, that’s one of
the reasons I got into podcasting

00:23:46.008 –> 00:23:50.823
was it was audio only
and or not only,

00:23:50.823 –> 00:23:53.643
but that’s what most people
were doing when I started it.

00:23:53.703 –> 00:23:58.443
Then I think it’s there
are several reasons that I’ve

00:23:58.503 –> 00:24:03.678
decided not to do it, and
I get what people say.

00:24:03.678 –> 00:24:06.658
And I understand, you know,
both the, visualization.

00:24:07.118 –> 00:24:10.573
I know people I mean,
I’m you know,

00:24:10.573 –> 00:24:14.063
everybody has a different way of learning and absorbing content

00:24:14.143 –> 00:24:15.873
and stuff, some visually,
some auditorial.

00:24:16.178 –> 00:24:19.238
You know, it they have
a strength in one or the other.

00:24:20.258 –> 00:24:27.563
But what one of the things I
found is that it made it a little

00:24:27.563 –> 00:24:31.083
bit more accessible, and especially
as I was growing the numbers.

00:24:31.083 –> 00:24:34.438
So if you’re, you know, if you’re
doing a podcast maybe once

00:24:34.438 –> 00:24:39.958
a week or once every two weeks, I mean
it’s a little easier production wise.

00:24:39.958 –> 00:24:43.203
Of course, there’s a lot of challenges.
I’m not gonna get into that.

00:24:43.503 –> 00:24:49.043
It’s a lot easier to obviously
edit, audio than video and audio.

00:24:49.548 –> 00:24:55.088
But I realized that as I asked more
and more people to the podcast

00:24:55.388 –> 00:25:00.653
that there probably wouldn’t have
been quite as many that said

00:25:00.653 –> 00:25:03.933
yes if I’d said it was video.
And I didn’t wanna do a mix.

00:25:03.933 –> 00:25:08.038
I didn’t wanna say, okay. Some of them
will be video. Some will be audio.

00:25:08.578 –> 00:25:12.978
And it was maybe a reason of they
felt they didn’t have the

00:25:13.378 –> 00:25:17.033
proper equipment, the bandwidth
where they live. You know?

00:25:17.033 –> 00:25:19.113
We know the challenges
of everybody around.

00:25:19.113 –> 00:25:23.478
And I really feel that I you
know, where we are right now,

00:25:23.478 –> 00:25:27.558
I think I’m we’ve had, like,
four hundred and some guests.

00:25:27.558 –> 00:25:29.958
I would say probably fifty
percent of those guests wouldn’t

00:25:29.958 –> 00:25:33.333
have been on if it
had been video.

00:25:33.953 –> 00:25:38.753
And that’s not saying nobody should do
video or not do video because of that.

00:25:38.753 –> 00:25:47.878
It was just the number of shows
I was doing and how I wanted

00:25:47.878 –> 00:25:49.978
to make it as easy
as possible.

00:25:50.143 –> 00:25:54.863
So when I get people on the show, you
know, there’s a lot of times they’re,

00:25:56.303 –> 00:26:00.208
they maybe need to start over or
they would have been very you know,

00:26:00.208 –> 00:26:03.328
even culturally, there’s been
some issues where it would have

00:26:03.328 –> 00:26:07.353
been very difficult for them
to do it visually and stuff.

00:26:07.353 –> 00:26:11.913
So there’s that’s
really a big part of it.

00:26:11.913 –> 00:26:14.393
And I don’t wanna kinda
do a mix, you know,

00:26:14.393 –> 00:26:17.428
do some that are audio and
some of that are videos.

00:26:17.428 –> 00:26:19.908
So I’ve just chosen to
go that direction.

00:26:19.908 –> 00:26:23.748
And I know you, you know, you
can always get a maybe a bigger

00:26:23.748 –> 00:26:27.333
audience with video because
you’ve got, you know,

00:26:27.333 –> 00:26:30.293
YouTube and people are
gonna watch it and stuff.

00:26:30.293 –> 00:26:33.878
But it’s worked for me
and I kinda stick to my guns,

00:26:33.878 –> 00:26:36.218
and some people get
very, you know,

00:26:36.278 –> 00:26:40.403
passionate with me trying to change
my mind. But It’s not my intention.

00:26:40.403 –> 00:26:44.010
No. I know you aren’t.
There’s other people, though.

00:26:44.264 –> 00:26:47.573
To each their own, and I think if
this is the model that’s that

00:26:47.603 –> 00:26:50.008
is a success for you.
And you’re right.

00:26:50.008 –> 00:26:51.788
I mean, some
people would not,

00:26:52.168 –> 00:26:57.083
want to appear on video and would
not have maybe come to your show,

00:26:57.303 –> 00:27:00.423
to your podcast. Even me,

00:27:00.423 –> 00:27:03.543
the first time you asked me
to say something like five

00:27:03.543 –> 00:27:07.238
minutes on a I think it was a feedback
on a WordCamp or something like that.

00:27:08.258 –> 00:27:12.118
I the first thing I ask is
is it video or audio only?

00:27:12.663 –> 00:27:15.163
Because, you know, I
don’t need to, like,

00:27:15.303 –> 00:27:18.523
make my hair or makeup or I don’t
know. I keep in my pajama.

00:27:20.058 –> 00:27:24.378
You know? Exactly. Yeah. I have
a lot of people that, you know,

00:27:24.378 –> 00:27:28.478
they’ll ask me and and they’ll do
a kind of a heavy sigh of relief like,

00:27:28.833 –> 00:27:31.873
right? You know, I don’t
have to be on or whatever.

00:27:31.873 –> 00:27:35.073
But, again, like you said,
it’s it fits my model.

00:27:35.073 –> 00:27:38.318
And when people ask me about
anything about podcasting and

00:27:38.318 –> 00:27:41.918
starting a podcast, they say,
what preference do you think?

00:27:41.918 –> 00:27:45.378
Video or audio? And I say,
you’ve gotta make that decision.

00:27:45.663 –> 00:27:49.923
It’s all based on you. It’s not
based on what others are doing.

00:27:50.463 –> 00:27:53.988
And I’m very happy that you are you,
yourself, OK to be on video.

00:27:53.988 –> 00:27:56.528
Yeah. Yeah. I will be.

00:27:56.708 –> 00:28:00.678
And I like the cap.
Yeah, thank you.

00:28:03.993 –> 00:28:09.688
Did over five hundred people that
you had, as guests, did you have,

00:28:10.248 –> 00:28:14.028
sometimes a struggle or something
that you had to, I mean,

00:28:14.968 –> 00:28:19.873
delete or not publish of controversial
topic or stuff like that?

00:28:20.253 –> 00:28:27.648
You know, there’s, you know, some
struggles have been with, yeah,

00:28:27.648 –> 00:28:32.068
there’s been heavy editing on some
because the people or the person,

00:28:32.983 –> 00:28:35.863
whether it’s one or more, were
very nervous and maybe they

00:28:35.863 –> 00:28:39.143
had to start over several times. You
know? So there’s extra editing there.

00:28:39.143 –> 00:28:41.988
As far as the content,
most of the time,

00:28:42.148 –> 00:28:46.468
there’s very little time I have
to delete something because I

00:28:46.468 –> 00:28:51.463
think people that come on know
me and know the show enough.

00:28:51.463 –> 00:29:01.448
I’m a very I was recently
noted that I never, you know,

00:29:01.448 –> 00:29:06.328
questioned or challenged anything
about the software or the community.

00:29:06.328 –> 00:29:10.153
And I told the person that
that’s not necessarily something

00:29:10.153 –> 00:29:12.893
I’m doing for anybody else.
That’s just my personality.

00:29:13.113 –> 00:29:16.953
That’s how I’ve always been. I’ve been
a fairly awesome optimistic person.

00:29:16.953 –> 00:29:24.298
So but there has been a few times I’ve
told people afterwards that I may like,

00:29:24.298 –> 00:29:28.358
if they bash a product, you know
they can kind of say

00:29:28.648 –> 00:29:34.153
constructive criticism
about a certain kind of product,

00:29:34.283 –> 00:29:37.223
but I don’t like
bashing brand names.

00:29:37.598 –> 00:29:40.958
So I’ve had to edit out a few
things like that and stuff.

00:29:40.958 –> 00:29:43.618
But then there’s also it’s
it’s very interesting.

00:29:44.078 –> 00:29:51.313
I did a podcast once, and the,
person dropped the F-bomb a lot,

00:29:51.773 –> 00:29:55.018
which was a little you know, I
don’t tell them they can’t do it,

00:29:55.258 –> 00:29:57.678
but it was a it was a different
kind of conversation.

00:29:57.818 –> 00:30:01.438
And it, actually, he didn’t
do it in the, like,

00:30:01.738 –> 00:30:05.413
so much that he was just doing
it to, you know, be whatever.

00:30:05.873 –> 00:30:08.213
It was just part of
his personality,

00:30:08.433 –> 00:30:12.453
and I actually left in quite a bit
of it because it didn’t make sense.

00:30:12.498 –> 00:30:15.138
If I would have edited it out,
it would have lost something.

00:30:15.138 –> 00:30:17.878
And he wasn’t doing it in
a rude kind of way either.

00:30:18.418 –> 00:30:22.333
So there’s not aggressive, but it’s
more his own style of speaking.

00:30:22.333 –> 00:30:26.093
Yeah. Just the way he
communicates. And so it’s yeah.

00:30:26.093 –> 00:30:29.048
You gotta kind of
make a call on it.

00:30:29.128 –> 00:30:31.688
And, you know, there’s gonna be
times I’ve never had to tell

00:30:31.688 –> 00:30:36.488
nobody that this isn’t going out, so I’ve
never had to not publish something.

00:30:36.488 –> 00:30:43.583
I’ve had to one builder, plugin builder
was extremely, extremely nervous,

00:30:43.583 –> 00:30:49.488
and so he was reading his answers.
And he would just keep starting over.

00:30:49.488 –> 00:30:52.208
And I actually felt very bad
for him because, you know,

00:30:52.208 –> 00:30:55.088
he was just he wasn’t
comfortable doing it.

00:30:55.088 –> 00:31:00.293
So I edited as best as I could and
made it sound as good as possible.

00:31:00.293 –> 00:31:06.578
But I do let people know at
the beginning that I ask them,

00:31:06.578 –> 00:31:09.858
you know, if there’s anything
we don’t wanna talk about or

00:31:09.858 –> 00:31:11.618
something you don’t
want us to address.

00:31:11.618 –> 00:31:14.883
And if there is
anything, you know,

00:31:14.883 –> 00:31:17.923
I’m glad to take it out if you’ve
said something that you feel

00:31:17.923 –> 00:31:20.963
like you shouldn’t have said. So
I’m pretty flexible. But.

00:31:22.348 –> 00:31:24.988
And by the way, it’s the same
here for me. Yeah. Yeah.

00:31:24.988 –> 00:31:28.268
I was I was gonna mention some
about that, but I didn’t know.

00:31:28.268 –> 00:31:33.753
But you’re yes. You’re Yeah. I can edit,
but I think it’s pretty good so far.

00:31:33.753 –> 00:31:36.633
So Yeah. I don’t think I
will need to edit a lot,

00:31:36.633 –> 00:31:38.368
but just if there is
something, like,

00:31:38.448 –> 00:31:41.488
suddenly you realize you have said
something about someone and say,

00:31:41.488 –> 00:31:44.628
oh, no. Maybe it should not be there.
So Yeah. Something like this.

00:31:45.328 –> 00:31:48.353
And I’m not very high on
equipment. You know?

00:31:48.353 –> 00:31:50.993
I’m using an online
tool that,

00:31:51.553 –> 00:31:57.093
does at the same time the streaming
or recording and, a studio.

00:31:57.468 –> 00:32:02.108
I was lucky enough to buy it,
when it was a lifetime deal and Oh,

00:32:02.108 –> 00:32:03.568
good. Very, really good.

00:32:04.028 –> 00:32:10.213
You may have seen the background
if I before twenty minutes in,

00:32:10.213 –> 00:32:13.988
I forgot to change the background
and we could see the name.

00:32:14.388 –> 00:32:18.228
And I like it very much. I I believe
it’s the same that is used by,

00:32:18.868 –> 00:32:23.743
Nathan on WPBuilds. Because
I recognize the, like,

00:32:23.743 –> 00:32:27.423
the branding of the names.
You know? Exactly.

00:32:27.423 –> 00:32:29.743
Anyway, so I think
it’s a very good one.

00:32:29.743 –> 00:32:35.758
And even though I do not have that
great equipment with my laptop,

00:32:37.098 –> 00:32:38.298
it works well.

00:32:38.298 –> 00:32:42.638
I sometimes have issue with
Zoom calls and other calls,

00:32:43.163 –> 00:32:48.683
But so far on this one, it just
works. So that’s good.

00:32:48.683 –> 00:32:53.538
But I was going to ask you
about your, like, tech stack.

00:32:53.538 –> 00:32:59.138
Maybe you, I mean, you need to
have equipment and you need to have,

00:32:59.138 –> 00:33:02.073
like, skills how to edit
and stuff like that,

00:33:02.073 –> 00:33:05.613
or it becomes easier and
easier year after year,

00:33:05.993 –> 00:33:09.353
thanks to thanks to
new tools that exist?

00:33:09.353 –> 00:33:13.208
And what do you
think about it? Yeah.

00:33:13.208 –> 00:33:16.248
I think it’s, you know, it’s
it’s like when anybody starts,

00:33:16.248 –> 00:33:20.303
they get stressed out. And you know, do
I need to buy an expensive microphone?

00:33:20.303 –> 00:33:23.583
I mean, you start with
the microphone and you start looking

00:33:23.583 –> 00:33:28.058
at tools and whether you’re streaming
or, you know, video or audio.

00:33:28.758 –> 00:33:32.913
And, you know, I think
it’s important.

00:33:33.133 –> 00:33:35.473
I’m not quite like
most podcasters.

00:33:35.773 –> 00:33:40.878
I don’t just, you know, ram it down
people’s throat that, you know,

00:33:40.878 –> 00:33:42.578
make sure you
have good sound.

00:33:42.638 –> 00:33:46.318
You’re going to if you’re gonna start
a podcast, you’re gonna find over time.

00:33:46.318 –> 00:33:48.503
I mean, I’ve gone through
several microphones.

00:33:48.643 –> 00:33:53.523
I’ve gone through several services that
worked and stuff. You just gotta yeah.

00:33:53.523 –> 00:33:56.978
Like you said, you learn
it over time. It’s you know?

00:33:57.138 –> 00:33:58.418
You’re still gonna
make mistakes.

00:33:58.418 –> 00:34:01.778
I remember one time I did
an entire half of a podcast.

00:34:01.778 –> 00:34:05.803
I forgot I push didn’t push record,
and I was so embarrassed.

00:34:05.803 –> 00:34:08.843
It was this, yeah. And
it was very you know,

00:34:08.843 –> 00:34:13.408
she was this woman that was do
had an ecommerce business in,

00:34:13.648 –> 00:34:17.488
I believe it was Uganda,
and I just felt horrible.

00:34:17.488 –> 00:34:19.648
And she was you know, I said
I stopped, and I said,

00:34:19.648 –> 00:34:22.388
do you realize I haven’t
recorded any of this?

00:34:22.863 –> 00:34:26.223
And I just, you know,
hung my head.

00:34:26.223 –> 00:34:30.723
But, you know, things happen, and
I think that you’re going to,

00:34:31.023 –> 00:34:35.028
you know, yeah, you’re gonna find
the equipment that works well for you.

00:34:35.028 –> 00:34:38.648
I have a I use, yeah,
an audio platform.

00:34:38.868 –> 00:34:43.573
I use I still use GarageBand,
actually, on my Mac for some stuff.

00:34:43.573 –> 00:34:46.233
I use Descript, which
a lot of people use.

00:34:47.013 –> 00:34:51.588
I use, Rev for my,
transcripts,

00:34:51.648 –> 00:34:57.093
and I use I’ve been using ChatGPT
to help clean up the transcripts

00:34:57.093 –> 00:35:01.333
even a little bit better after
that. So you find your yeah.

00:35:01.333 –> 00:35:02.968
You find your
workflows and stuff.

00:35:03.848 –> 00:35:08.028
And I think there’s in fact, I
was just talking to somebody that’s,

00:35:09.768 –> 00:35:13.133
doing a very interesting tool
that’s going to help podcasters

00:35:13.433 –> 00:35:16.953
with questions and stuff.
I think it uses AI,

00:35:16.953 –> 00:35:22.688
but it actually looks at other
interviews that person has had

00:35:22.688 –> 00:35:25.008
so you can see what
they’ve talked about,

00:35:25.008 –> 00:35:27.488
maybe find new topics to
talk with them about.

00:35:27.488 –> 00:35:30.213
So it’s, yeah, it’s it’s
progressing, you know,

00:35:30.213 –> 00:35:34.533
and there’s all sorts of things out there
that but I just tell people don’t,

00:35:34.533 –> 00:35:37.778
you know, don’t invest
tons and tons of money.

00:35:37.778 –> 00:35:40.998
You can do that over time
and find what you need.

00:35:42.258 –> 00:35:43.858
When you said you
forgot to record,

00:35:43.858 –> 00:35:46.993
I just had a quick look in
the corner of the Yeah. Doesn’t it?

00:35:46.993 –> 00:35:50.933
Now you’re it makes you feel, it
it was it was a terrible thing.

00:35:51.233 –> 00:35:55.498
Yeah. It’s written recording
thirty six minutes. Yeah. Good.

00:35:55.678 –> 00:36:03.353
Yeah. And for the, like,
Descript, actually,

00:36:03.353 –> 00:36:05.753
this service is included
in that tool that I have.

00:36:05.753 –> 00:36:10.953
So I will see I know there is still
a lot to edit, especially when we say,

00:36:12.078 –> 00:36:16.658
person’s names because, obviously,
it can’t guess everyone’s names.

00:36:17.518 –> 00:36:21.493
And also sometimes, I guess, with
accent because with my French accent,

00:36:21.493 –> 00:36:23.993
it might not recognize
all the English words.

00:36:24.373 –> 00:36:28.453
So I will see how it works
for our one, and I want to edit.

00:36:28.453 –> 00:36:31.928
If not, at least for the for people’s
name, I think it’s important.

00:36:31.928 –> 00:36:35.608
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I remember I was
interviewed I was in a conversation

00:36:35.608 –> 00:36:40.313
with Remkus on Within WordPress,
and all the names were wrong,

00:36:40.313 –> 00:36:46.413
but sometimes it was like a Kier,
h k l, you know? Yeah. Exactly.

00:36:46.473 –> 00:36:50.648
I need to we need to
edit it because Yeah. Yeah.

00:36:50.648 –> 00:36:55.068
I tried to look at to go through
and visually find names, brand,

00:36:55.433 –> 00:36:57.613
company names, things
that you know?

00:36:57.833 –> 00:37:00.713
And sometimes it’s still
things slip by and stuff.

00:37:00.713 –> 00:37:04.568
But, yeah, it’s I used to
pay for human transcripts,

00:37:04.948 –> 00:37:07.828
which was wonderful because
they were really done well,

00:37:07.828 –> 00:37:09.908
but they’re very
expensive too.

00:37:09.908 –> 00:37:12.933
So that’s not realistic
for a lot of people,

00:37:12.993 –> 00:37:15.493
and it became unrealistic
for me even.

00:37:17.713 –> 00:37:21.428
Another question, and that’s
actually even interesting for me.

00:37:21.728 –> 00:37:25.328
Do you have any advice for
anyone who want to start now?

00:37:25.328 –> 00:37:30.123
A podcast or a web show like this
in video? You know, I okay.

00:37:30.123 –> 00:37:33.323
This is this is really, this
is something I’ve been saying

00:37:33.323 –> 00:37:35.503
for years and I
use this analogy.

00:37:36.523 –> 00:37:43.618
And, it’s kind of a strange one,
but I’ll use the same example.

00:37:43.618 –> 00:37:47.238
So if I sat down with somebody and
they said, I wanna do a podcast,

00:37:49.453 –> 00:37:51.693
You know, I first
probably say, you know,

00:37:51.693 –> 00:37:55.053
you realize the resources and
the time it’s gonna take, you know,

00:37:55.053 –> 00:38:01.348
and you don’t need to spend
tons of it in the beginning. And then

00:38:01.348 –> 00:38:05.793
I would ask them, why do you want
a podcast? Why do you want to do it?

00:38:07.343 –> 00:38:13.818
I always this is really a silly example
but it gives you kind of the idea.

00:38:13.878 –> 00:38:15.958
So if I ask this person
and they said, well,

00:38:15.958 –> 00:38:18.938
I want a podcast because I like
the sound of my own voice.

00:38:19.403 –> 00:38:21.243
Now that’s not really
a good reason.

00:38:21.243 –> 00:38:27.183
But if that’s his reason or her
reason, then I’d say, oh, okay.

00:38:27.323 –> 00:38:31.878
Well, if that’s your reason to
do it, go ahead and do it.

00:38:32.818 –> 00:38:36.023
Then I would come back to
that person after, say,

00:38:36.023 –> 00:38:38.763
three months if they’re
still doing it.

00:38:39.623 –> 00:38:43.323
And I would say, so I see
you’re still podcasting.

00:38:43.543 –> 00:38:48.598
Do you still like to do it because
you like to hear the sound

00:38:48.598 –> 00:38:53.953
of your own voice? And if that person
says, yeah. You know? I love it.

00:38:53.953 –> 00:38:56.133
I love listening to my
voice all the time.

00:38:56.913 –> 00:39:00.408
Then they’re doing it for
the right reason because it’s what

00:39:00.408 –> 00:39:03.448
drives them to continue to
do it. If they said, no.

00:39:03.448 –> 00:39:08.248
That was really a stupid idea, then
maybe you should rethink this.

00:39:08.248 –> 00:39:13.683
So it’s always to me, it’s you know,
you’ve gotta just like everything,

00:39:13.683 –> 00:39:15.443
you gotta have
the resources and time,

00:39:15.443 –> 00:39:19.718
but you’ve gotta make sure
the reason you’re doing it is what

00:39:19.718 –> 00:39:23.758
keeps you doing it. And that
never becomes, you know Okay.

00:39:23.958 –> 00:39:27.353
The dreaded part or you’re just
gonna start belaboring it and

00:39:27.353 –> 00:39:31.353
you’re gonna make it, and it’s not gonna
turn out or or be good for anybody,

00:39:31.353 –> 00:39:36.018
you or your guests.
That’s very good advice.

00:39:36.018 –> 00:39:38.278
And if I may reply
to that question.

00:39:38.898 –> 00:39:44.163
Actually, I was interviewed
quite a lot since January about

00:39:44.303 –> 00:39:49.423
the GatherPress project and I
actually enjoyed to be in so many

00:39:49.423 –> 00:39:51.283
conversations with
so many people.

00:39:51.578 –> 00:39:55.498
I mentioned, Remkus, but I
was also with Michelle Frechette,

00:39:55.978 –> 00:39:58.058
with Mike from
the GatherPress project.

00:39:58.058 –> 00:40:01.863
We were interviewed by Michelle
Frechette on, WP Constellations.

00:40:02.643 –> 00:40:07.623
Then I was in, KrautPress
with Simon Kraft, and others.

00:40:07.923 –> 00:40:12.798
And every time it also with,
Indystack, you know, many.

00:40:12.938 –> 00:40:21.013
So every time I say, oh, actually,
that was much less difficult than,

00:40:21.413 –> 00:40:26.313
that I would have thought. It
was just a conversation with a friend.

00:40:26.798 –> 00:40:30.558
Okay. It’s on video, but it would be
the same if we had talked about this,

00:40:30.718 –> 00:40:34.513
over at a drink or a café at
at a WordCamp, you know.

00:40:34.513 –> 00:40:36.453
So it it’s just,

00:40:37.553 –> 00:40:43.013
that nice feeling to talk with
a friend on a friendly conversation.

00:40:43.988 –> 00:40:46.468
And that’s what
I liked the most,

00:40:46.468 –> 00:40:51.208
and I now know a lot of people
around the WordPress community.

00:40:51.853 –> 00:40:55.693
And I love to go to WordCamps
and especially WordCamp

00:40:55.693 –> 00:40:58.273
Europe because people come
from all over the world.

00:40:58.413 –> 00:41:02.168
And I never have an enough time
to talk with everyone and always

00:41:02.388 –> 00:41:05.588
there is there are people that I
realize, oh, but they were there,

00:41:05.588 –> 00:41:08.788
you know, because they post on social
media. And I didn’t even see them.

00:41:08.788 –> 00:41:14.583
So now we can have conversation
online and talk about things

00:41:14.583 –> 00:41:16.683
that could be interesting
for other people.

00:41:17.288 –> 00:41:23.608
So that’s why, this
idea came and, yeah,

00:41:23.608 –> 00:41:28.253
I if so I will follow your advice and
in three months ask myself Yeah.

00:41:28.573 –> 00:41:31.793
If still the same
reason. I mean,

00:41:32.148 –> 00:41:35.848
sometimes we have conversations that
could be really useful to others,

00:41:35.908 –> 00:41:39.428
and, I was mentioning
the language part.

00:41:39.428 –> 00:41:45.053
So that could be something that
is interesting, to other people.

00:41:46.233 –> 00:41:47.673
There will be
another episode.

00:41:47.673 –> 00:41:50.178
Actually, it’s already recorded,
but it will come after you,

00:41:50.178 –> 00:41:56.918
so you still are the first. It was
with, a Spanish person.

00:41:57.378 –> 00:42:03.913
His name is Javi Guembe and he
started a project called WP Talk Link,

00:42:04.213 –> 00:42:09.408
and then you can find people
from the WordPress community to

00:42:09.408 –> 00:42:11.888
to have a language buddy.
You know? Oh, yeah.

00:42:11.888 –> 00:42:15.563
And with the list of people, and
you can improve other languages,

00:42:16.583 –> 00:42:19.623
talking with people.
So that was,

00:42:20.183 –> 00:42:22.838
that’s something that can
be useful to others.

00:42:22.838 –> 00:42:26.538
And I love to have something
that is useful to many.

00:42:27.318 –> 00:42:34.253
So what’s the best as a web show. I
I don’t call it podcast if it’s with video.

00:42:34.253 –> 00:42:39.233
I call it web show or Yeah. Until I
find a best name, a better name.

00:42:40.093 –> 00:42:43.718
But for now it’s, yeah. For
me, podcast is audio only.

00:42:43.778 –> 00:42:48.823
So it’s what you do, actually.
Yeah. And it’s very Yep. Sorry.

00:42:49.043 –> 00:42:51.363
Oh, I’m just gonna, say
it’s very you know,

00:42:51.363 –> 00:42:54.323
the conversational type podcast
like you were talking about,

00:42:54.323 –> 00:42:56.503
you found you really
enjoyed them.

00:42:57.308 –> 00:43:01.788
On our podcast, I’d say probably
half the people have never

00:43:01.788 –> 00:43:05.068
been on a podcast before, and
some of them come in very nervous

00:43:05.068 –> 00:43:10.063
and very stressed. And at the end
of it, I would say, you know,

00:43:10.603 –> 00:43:15.708
a large amount of those same people
say, wow, that was fun. It is.

00:43:15.708 –> 00:43:17.168
It’s that relaxed
conversation,

00:43:17.468 –> 00:43:22.048
and that’s what’s important is
is getting everybody

00:43:22.108 –> 00:43:24.973
in that zone of being
relaxed and just like,

00:43:24.973 –> 00:43:27.793
you’re sitting and talking
with somebody at a WordCamp.

00:43:27.933 –> 00:43:31.773
And I think that’s huge
because a lot of them have gone

00:43:31.773 –> 00:43:34.048
on to do other stuff
because they said, wow.

00:43:34.048 –> 00:43:37.988
You know, I didn’t really know I
would enjoy this as much as I did.

00:43:38.208 –> 00:43:40.848
And just giving them the opportunity
and giving them a little

00:43:40.848 –> 00:43:44.613
push and stuff really helps.
I was also nervous,

00:43:44.673 –> 00:43:47.333
and it’s becomes
easier and easier.

00:43:48.113 –> 00:43:52.803
I’m the French translator and
voice for WordPress Podcast,

00:43:53.908 –> 00:43:59.448
that was started four years
ago now, by Javier Casares.

00:43:59.508 –> 00:44:04.683
It it was in Spanish only for three and
a half year and then he started to add,

00:44:05.943 –> 00:44:11.608
English. Then someone, a friend
of him and me now,

00:44:13.028 –> 00:44:16.648
started to do the voice and
translation and voice in Catalan,

00:44:17.508 –> 00:44:22.233
Josep Morán. And then, I said,
oh, then I could do the French.

00:44:23.253 –> 00:44:29.378
And, since we have more languages,
German and others are coming

00:44:30.308 –> 00:44:31.648
even Esperanto.

00:44:32.238 –> 00:44:35.923
But I think that
also helped me,

00:44:36.303 –> 00:44:39.423
to feel more and more confident
doing that every every week,

00:44:39.423 –> 00:44:40.083
you know.

00:44:41.503 –> 00:44:46.318
And if you ask me why and if it
is still enjoyable to do it,

00:44:46.318 –> 00:44:49.528
yes, because I learn
everything that has been

00:44:49.528 –> 00:44:53.783
done in the Make Teams for the week
the weekly news of the Make Teams.

00:44:54.233 –> 00:44:57.913
So, usually, I cannot follow
everything. You know? Yeah.

00:44:57.913 –> 00:45:01.928
Yeah. Really. Well, yeah, I’m
mostly in the Community Team,

00:45:02.888 –> 00:45:05.548
a little bit in the DEIB
group and Sustainability.

00:45:06.008 –> 00:45:12.293
But then, I learned what happens in
other teams, like core design themes.

00:45:13.553 –> 00:45:18.113
So that’s really interesting because,
you know, I just translate,

00:45:18.113 –> 00:45:23.548
but this text is often about the new
features in, getting in the Gutenberg,

00:45:24.168 –> 00:45:28.428
plugin, that the features that
are going to be added to the next

00:45:29.273 –> 00:45:33.213
major version of WordPress. So,
usually, I’m very curious.

00:45:34.393 –> 00:45:38.073
I installed the Gutenberg
plugin to be able to test.

00:45:38.073 –> 00:45:42.648
Like, before 6.5, I wanted
it to have the typography features.

00:45:42.648 –> 00:45:47.388
And before 6.6, that is going
to be released now, next week.

00:45:48.313 –> 00:45:53.353
I wanted the Grid block,
so I guess it’s like yeah.

00:45:53.353 –> 00:45:56.313
So it’s very, still I mean,

00:45:56.313 –> 00:45:59.798
I enjoy doing it because
I learn and I love to learn.

00:45:59.798 –> 00:46:03.638
And at the same time, it helped
me to become, more at ease with,

00:46:04.278 –> 00:46:06.723
microphone even if
the sound is still not.

00:46:06.963 –> 00:46:12.083
There’s always a shhh sound that I
need to learn about and improve.

00:46:12.083 –> 00:46:18.788
But, yeah, to be more at ease with my
voice and, you know, to not be nervous,

00:46:19.648 –> 00:46:23.728
like, oh my god. People are going
to hear my voice. Yeah.

00:46:23.728 –> 00:46:27.823
So what? Yeah. And
for a lot of people,

00:46:28.523 –> 00:46:32.778
not being an English native is
also a problem because they I

00:46:32.858 –> 00:46:34.378
I don’t know if you had
that on your show.

00:46:34.378 –> 00:46:36.298
People say oh, but
what about my accent?

00:46:36.298 –> 00:46:39.018
I don’t speak English well
and stuff like that.

00:46:39.018 –> 00:46:43.933
And I want to inspire people to
to say that it’s not a problem

00:46:43.933 –> 00:46:49.028
and you don’t need to be, ashamed,
at least to have a second language,

00:46:49.028 –> 00:46:51.288
you know, it means
that you learn it.

00:46:51.428 –> 00:46:55.288
Yeah, you know, that’s
interesting because when I edit,

00:46:55.348 –> 00:46:59.143
a lot of people
that have, you know,

00:46:59.143 –> 00:47:00.763
English isn’t their
first language.

00:47:01.223 –> 00:47:04.823
One of the things is I was
talking to somebody and said that

00:47:04.823 –> 00:47:06.908
must take a lot of
editing. And I said, no.

00:47:06.908 –> 00:47:11.948
Really, it doesn’t because
there’s a certain nuance in that.

00:47:11.948 –> 00:47:14.713
This is one of the things I love
about audio is when you listen

00:47:14.713 –> 00:47:17.693
to audio and you’re not actually
looking at somebody talking

00:47:18.633 –> 00:47:24.938
is when somebody is looking for a word
that they can’t quite you know,

00:47:24.938 –> 00:47:27.998
because, yeah, they don’t speak English.
It’s not their first language.

00:47:28.938 –> 00:47:38.193
Leaving in that process of discovering
that word shows the talent

00:47:38.193 –> 00:47:40.513
they have on being able to
speak in that language.

00:47:40.513 –> 00:47:42.508
There’s something about,
So I wouldn’t you know,

00:47:42.508 –> 00:47:47.388
if they maybe repeat something a
couple three times, I don’t cut that out.

00:47:47.388 –> 00:47:51.263
I leave it there because that
shows that they’re making that

00:47:51.263 –> 00:47:54.063
effort to come on and
speak in English.

00:47:54.063 –> 00:47:55.503
And I’m to tell
you the truth,

00:47:55.503 –> 00:47:59.848
I’m constantly amazed when every
anybody from any other country

00:47:59.848 –> 00:48:05.703
comes in on our show, and they’ll say,
well, my English isn’t perfect.

00:48:05.763 –> 00:48:10.003
I say, well, your English is
a lot perfect than if I tried to

00:48:10.003 –> 00:48:13.178
speak your language and stuff. I
said, you’re doing a great job.

00:48:13.178 –> 00:48:16.058
Just relax and don’t worry
about so it there is.

00:48:16.058 –> 00:48:20.218
There’s you gotta let people
work through it and not try to

00:48:20.218 –> 00:48:23.003
make something perfect and let
them know it doesn’t have to

00:48:23.003 –> 00:48:27.083
be perfect because people are
understanding. You know?

00:48:27.083 –> 00:48:31.438
You’re making a huge
effort to do something that a lot

00:48:31.438 –> 00:48:36.878
of people can’t do. So. And about that,
you are learning Portuguese right now.

00:48:36.878 –> 00:48:40.103
Right? Oh, I’m not
even gonna try to talk.

00:48:40.103 –> 00:48:44.203
The you know, I’m it’s
a little easier to understanding

00:48:44.263 –> 00:48:48.368
than to speak. They have so
many weird little sounds.

00:48:48.428 –> 00:48:51.548
I mean, they have sounds that
when I try to make those sounds,

00:48:51.548 –> 00:48:56.183
they don’t sound quite right.
They’re the word doesn’t come.

00:48:56.323 –> 00:48:58.163
So I’m slow.

00:48:58.163 –> 00:49:03.863
It it’s a very, very slow
process and stuff, but people are very,

00:49:05.988 –> 00:49:08.388
what do I wanna
say? You know,

00:49:08.388 –> 00:49:13.463
as long as you don’t expect anybody to
speak English, you get it figured out.

00:49:13.523 –> 00:49:17.683
You know? And sometimes it’s just do
a little bit of back and forth and stuff,

00:49:17.683 –> 00:49:21.203
and you communicate
and stuff as long as you don’t

00:49:21.203 –> 00:49:25.798
make that expectation on them.
And, so we’re doing well.

00:49:25.798 –> 00:49:29.478
It’s gonna take us some
time. Let me tell you. No.

00:49:29.478 –> 00:49:33.243
I think people appreciate when people
are trying to make the effort.

00:49:33.295 –> 00:49:36.495
Yeah. Exactly. Yeah.
Yeah. That’s it.

00:49:36.505 –> 00:49:39.920
It’s not important if you mistake,
like, masculine with feminine

00:49:39.960 –> 00:49:44.920
Yeah. Yeah. That’s it. Or
conjugate correctly. It’s okay.

00:49:46.088 –> 00:49:52.233
And, once, there was an American
who told me I had a I mean,

00:49:52.233 –> 00:49:55.548
I said, what about my French accent?
And he said, oh, it’s charming.

00:49:56.248 –> 00:50:01.018
That’s good, It is charming. I
don’t event need to try to improve Yeah.

00:50:01.848 –> 00:50:05.593
Thank you. It was, Brian from
WP Sessions. Oh, okay.

00:50:05.593 –> 00:50:10.973
That was, nice to hear because,
yeah, I always you know,

00:50:11.638 –> 00:50:14.298
in the French speaking part
of Switzerland where I live,

00:50:15.798 –> 00:50:20.613
we’re a bit self conscious about
I mean some people, not everyone,

00:50:20.833 –> 00:50:24.533
about the Swiss accent when
we speak with, people in France.

00:50:25.233 –> 00:50:28.518
You know? There was a lot of
humorists when I was young.

00:50:28.518 –> 00:50:31.498
I remember one, he was always
making fun of the Swiss accent.

00:50:31.878 –> 00:50:38.113
Yeah. That’s even I know
that some people just try to hide it,

00:50:38.653 –> 00:50:42.173
and even myself at the six
months ago, like, more now,

00:50:42.173 –> 00:50:46.498
in October last year when I started
with WPpodcast translation,

00:50:46.498 –> 00:50:49.538
a WordPress Podcast.
And I said, okay.

00:50:49.538 –> 00:50:52.098
Do I try to speak like
someone from Paris,

00:50:52.098 –> 00:50:58.563
or do I keep my own Swiss Geneva
accent, which is a bit different?

00:50:58.863 –> 00:51:02.783
But at the same time, it
came back naturally. Yeah.

00:51:02.783 –> 00:51:09.968
And also, It’s not, very much,
I mean, it’s not that strong.

00:51:10.428 –> 00:51:13.023
And in every region
of France, anyway,

00:51:13.023 –> 00:51:18.703
there are different accents per
region. So it’s just like another region.

00:51:18.703 –> 00:51:21.043
So. I love accents.

00:51:21.378 –> 00:51:27.138
I absolutely love I feel
bad if somebody loses it or

00:51:27.138 –> 00:51:32.423
something because I think that
that brings that’s where

00:51:32.423 –> 00:51:36.503
you’re from and stuff. And I
even when we do our show,

00:51:36.503 –> 00:51:41.078
I’ve only done a few of them where I let
them do it in their native language.

00:51:41.698 –> 00:51:43.378
I listened to
the entire show.

00:51:43.378 –> 00:51:47.773
I don’t understand a word they’re
saying, but the language,

00:51:47.913 –> 00:51:51.913
I just love listening to another
language because there’s some

00:51:52.153 –> 00:51:57.978
I honestly believe after hearing many
languages, and I shouldn’t say this,

00:51:57.978 –> 00:52:01.838
but no wonder people I’m amazed
they learn English because

00:52:02.613 –> 00:52:06.473
every other language sounds so much
more beautiful when I listen to it.

00:52:06.933 –> 00:52:11.148
Yeah. Languages are beautiful,
but even English. Yeah. Yeah.

00:52:11.148 –> 00:52:15.728
I like I love that as well. The,
like, the cultural richness it brings.

00:52:15.868 –> 00:52:20.523
And, yes, I know the show
you are talking about.

00:52:20.523 –> 00:52:24.523
You had three or four for now. Like
Yeah. Communities around the world.

00:52:24.523 –> 00:52:30.138
Yeah. And, yeah that’s nice. You
had in Spanish, Dutch, Serbian?

00:52:30.198 –> 00:52:35.338
I think those are the three and or
did I do oh, and I did Portuguese.

00:52:35.443 –> 00:52:38.163
I did. Yeah. I did
one. But, yeah,

00:52:38.163 –> 00:52:41.523
I’m gonna I’ve been trying to
get some groups together to do

00:52:41.523 –> 00:52:43.358
some more of those because
I really want Yeah.

00:52:43.678 –> 00:52:47.618
I really wanted to do the French one.
We have been talking about that.

00:52:47.998 –> 00:52:51.138
But I wanted to bring people from
different countries together.

00:52:51.863 –> 00:52:55.863
And that was difficult to
have someone from

00:52:56.183 –> 00:53:01.248
Canada and Belgium and at the same
time. You know? Yeah. Yeah.

00:53:01.248 –> 00:53:05.668
I even reached out to someone in
Togo that, a Meetup organizer.

00:53:05.968 –> 00:53:09.623
So let’s see. I would really
love to do that on your

00:53:09.623 –> 00:53:14.423
show and maybe do a, like,
a collaboration between you and

00:53:14.423 –> 00:53:17.808
your and mine that we could publish
at the same time also. Yeah.

00:53:17.808 –> 00:53:19.408
Yeah. That’d be
great. Yeah. Yeah.

00:53:19.408 –> 00:53:23.383
I will do that even if there’s
there are less people than I

00:53:23.383 –> 00:53:26.423
initially thought.
Yeah. And yeah.

00:53:26.423 –> 00:53:31.918
So, any other thing you want to
say or maybe do you have any

00:53:31.918 –> 00:53:36.238
upcoming project or what
things that I mean,

00:53:36.238 –> 00:53:39.413
the future what is the future
like on your project side and

00:53:39.413 –> 00:53:41.273
on WordPress side
in your opinion?

00:53:41.813 –> 00:53:45.013
You know, it’s for
my project, it’s just,

00:53:45.653 –> 00:53:49.708
we’re at a point where we have
twelve shows now for the podcast

00:53:49.708 –> 00:53:53.408
channel and I think I’m, you know,
I’m pretty set at that.

00:53:53.408 –> 00:54:00.013
We have a, you know, diverse topics.
So, covering a lot of things.

00:54:01.273 –> 00:54:04.288
I have a few other
things in work.

00:54:04.508 –> 00:54:09.648
I’m going to be, adding my
blog back into the site.

00:54:09.708 –> 00:54:11.948
I’m looking
at some of this,

00:54:12.428 –> 00:54:17.073
metaverse stuff that’s going on that
I don’t still don’t understand,

00:54:17.133 –> 00:54:20.273
but, how to reach out more in
that, looking at some other,

00:54:20.948 –> 00:54:22.788
interesting search
stuff for the site.

00:54:22.788 –> 00:54:26.148
So there’s there are different
things project wise that we’re

00:54:26.148 –> 00:54:28.068
just gonna grow
out, DotheWoo.

00:54:28.068 –> 00:54:31.253
I’ve really focused
and zeroed in on that.

00:54:31.793 –> 00:54:35.153
The project itself, I just,
yeah, I’m excited about it.

00:54:35.153 –> 00:54:42.118
I just I’m getting a blog post
ready to put out in, in a while,

00:54:42.178 –> 00:54:45.318
and I call it, rethinking
the WordPress way.

00:54:46.003 –> 00:54:50.083
And I it kind of it
encapsulates I mean, in a nutshell,

00:54:50.083 –> 00:54:55.718
it says what I think about
the future and now with WordPress.

00:54:55.778 –> 00:54:58.038
Everybody uses that term.

00:54:58.098 –> 00:55:02.438
The WordPress way is talking
about something we’re stuck on

00:55:03.133 –> 00:55:05.773
and or it’s the old
way or you know,

00:55:05.773 –> 00:55:09.133
people and some people love it
and some people criticize it,

00:55:09.133 –> 00:55:12.088
and it’s kind of is how
you perceive it yourself.

00:55:12.468 –> 00:55:15.748
For me, the WordPress way,
I’m telling people,

00:55:15.748 –> 00:55:18.468
why don’t we think of it as
what’s happening right now and

00:55:18.468 –> 00:55:22.473
what we’re doing moving forward? It’s
always gonna be the WordPress way.

00:55:22.473 –> 00:55:25.933
Whatever we’re doing and whatever
we’re innovating and changing,

00:55:26.473 –> 00:55:29.948
let’s grasp that and call it
the WordPress way because that’s

00:55:30.248 –> 00:55:34.488
really what it is. It’s how this
community and everybody that

00:55:34.488 –> 00:55:36.488
contributes moves this
project forward.

00:55:36.488 –> 00:55:41.193
So, yeah, I’m always
excited about the progress,

00:55:41.193 –> 00:55:44.368
and I’m always excited
to see, you know,

00:55:44.368 –> 00:55:46.628
all the people I’ve been
involved with, you know,

00:55:47.408 –> 00:55:55.123
the DEIB as much as I’ve been able to
in the community teams on Slack.

00:55:55.123 –> 00:55:59.943
But, I don’t I’m not able
to contribute in that way,

00:56:00.003 –> 00:56:02.468
but I tried to do it through
the podcast and stuff.

00:56:02.468 –> 00:56:07.588
And I’m just excited to, yeah, see
this community continue to grow,

00:56:07.588 –> 00:56:10.708
and I’m excited to see
getting some new faces.

00:56:10.708 –> 00:56:14.283
And we’re getting new faces
in here and there and stuff.

00:56:14.283 –> 00:56:18.203
And it’s just, just yeah. You just
keep going, and that’s like,

00:56:18.203 –> 00:56:20.843
like I said, that just keep
it the WordPress way,

00:56:20.843 –> 00:56:26.378
but make it not something set in
stone. It’s how we change. Yeah.

00:56:27.078 –> 00:56:31.180
Do you have any idea of the
future of WordPress?

00:56:31.180 –> 00:56:34.013
What is your opinion on that?

00:56:34.013 –> 00:56:36.928
You know, it’s really funny.
I’ve been asked that for years,

00:56:36.948 –> 00:56:43.598
and I always told some I always
tell them I don’t because

00:56:43.598 –> 00:56:48.283
I really I don’t know if
it’s I don’t think so much.

00:56:48.283 –> 00:56:51.663
Well, I’m always thinking of, you
know, what’s gonna happen stuff.

00:56:52.283 –> 00:56:56.448
I don’t really have any idea,
and that’s what I like about it,

00:56:56.448 –> 00:57:00.548
I think, is it’s
a bit unpredictable.

00:57:01.143 –> 00:57:05.143
I mean, you never know what is going
to, you know, what twist and turn.

00:57:05.143 –> 00:57:06.843
I mean, there’s things
that are laid out.

00:57:07.063 –> 00:57:13.018
So, you know, there’s a lot
of people that think, you know,

00:57:13.018 –> 00:57:16.378
things are a standstill, that
there’s too much change.

00:57:16.378 –> 00:57:21.053
I just I’m somebody that
there’s two parts of WordPress.

00:57:21.053 –> 00:57:24.913
There’s a tool, which I leave
in the hands of all the people

00:57:25.058 –> 00:57:27.378
that are really smart and
know what they’re doing,

00:57:27.378 –> 00:57:30.018
all these people that contribute
and put things together,

00:57:30.018 –> 00:57:34.038
and I don’t try to make it sound
like I have the answer for

00:57:34.233 –> 00:57:36.653
what is being done or
what should be done.

00:57:36.953 –> 00:57:42.073
The community, I think it’s still here.
It’s still gonna grow.

00:57:42.073 –> 00:57:44.138
You know, it’s
still gonna be here.

00:57:44.298 –> 00:57:49.978
Hopefully, it’ll, even become more
diverse. Things will change.

00:57:49.978 –> 00:57:51.678
You know? We’re always
gonna have challenges.

00:57:52.193 –> 00:57:54.533
So I kinda take it
a day at a time.

00:57:54.753 –> 00:57:59.233
You know, I know it’s gonna be here for
a while, probably quite a long time.

00:57:59.233 –> 00:58:04.518
What that looks like, I
absolutely have no idea. Yeah.

00:58:05.778 –> 00:58:09.798
During the Switzerland Community Day,
we had a 22 years old,

00:58:10.098 –> 00:58:12.713
person who is teaching
WordPress, I mean,

00:58:12.933 –> 00:58:15.833
she’s learning to be a teacher
or something like that.

00:58:16.133 –> 00:58:20.233
And, with the question how to
attract the younger generation,

00:58:21.178 –> 00:58:25.018
she said it would be absolutely
a game changer if there were

00:58:25.018 –> 00:58:30.573
more influencers on short video, like
TikTok and YouTube shorts

00:58:30.573 –> 00:58:34.733
and Instagram, to talk about
WordPress like some, like,

00:58:34.733 –> 00:58:38.278
proprietary SaaS
platforms are doing.

00:58:38.278 –> 00:58:42.458
They’re actually paying influencers
to talk about their platform.

00:58:42.838 –> 00:58:49.433
So maybe a bit of this one is going to
end on short videos if you are okay.

00:58:49.573 –> 00:58:53.033
Yeah. Like, to promote. I will
try I will try it. You know?

00:58:53.668 –> 00:58:56.148
Like, yeah, promote
WordPress on,

00:58:57.508 –> 00:59:01.688
on the platforms where the younger
generation is. Yeah. Yes?

00:59:02.123 –> 00:59:05.083
So Yeah. Yeah. And I think
people need to do that and take

00:59:05.083 –> 00:59:08.763
more advantage of it that are, you know,
already producing content and that,

00:59:09.678 –> 00:59:14.498
works to move into that and stuff.
Yeah. We just gotta, you know yep.

00:59:14.558 –> 00:59:17.778
We gotta Yeah. We gotta get it
out there and much as we can.

00:59:18.003 –> 00:59:21.923
So I will take, like, your
best sentences and best tips

00:59:21.923 –> 00:59:26.388
from Bob and watch the full video
on, on long form or something.

00:59:26.388 –> 00:59:30.408
And, actually, it’ll attract people
to WordPress and not turn them away.

00:59:31.028 –> 00:59:36.643
No. No. No. No. Okay. So it has
been a pleasure to have you.

00:59:36.643 –> 00:59:39.763
We are now at one hour,
so I think it’s, yeah,

00:59:39.763 –> 00:59:43.888
it’s very nice to see
you every time, in person,

00:59:43.888 –> 00:59:45.888
and it has been very
nice to have you this,

00:59:46.528 –> 00:59:50.423
with for this conversation
with you. Well, thank you.

00:59:50.483 –> 00:59:55.283
Thank you to you and DotheWoo
dothewoo.com. Right? Yes.

00:59:55.283 –> 00:59:59.738
DotheWoo.io. Oh,
sorry. Yeah. DotheWoo.io.

00:59:59.738 –> 01:00:05.758
So I will, Actually, it we do own
DotheWoo.com too. So it’ll forward.

01:00:06.353 –> 01:00:09.653
Yeah. I think I
knew that. I mean,

01:00:09.873 –> 01:00:13.493
I was the dot com is like it
comes automatically. Oh, it is.

01:00:13.553 –> 01:00:17.118
Right. Yeah. And all
the the past episodes, I,

01:00:18.058 –> 01:00:24.373
I encourage everyone to listen to,
like, some wiseness that we can find,

01:00:25.073 –> 01:00:26.993
wisdom. Sorry. That’s
the English word.

01:00:26.993 –> 01:00:29.873
The wisdom we can find in some
of the episodes and some of

01:00:29.873 –> 01:00:33.858
the guests you had. So
thank you so much for everything

01:00:33.858 –> 01:00:37.558
you do for the community, and thank
you so much for this conversation,

01:00:37.618 –> 01:00:40.893
Bob. Thank you. And it was
an absolute pleasure,

01:00:41.273 –> 01:00:43.993
kicking off your podcast
on the push first show.

01:00:43.993 –> 01:00:48.318
So I really appreciate the invite.
My pleasure. Thank you so much.

01:00:48.538 –> 01:00:50.158
Bye bye. Bye.