What a friendly conversation with Nathan!<\/p>\n\n\n\n
In our “Host the Host” series, we shine the spotlight on those who usually highlight others.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Watch on YouTube<\/a>, click the like button \ud83d\udc4d, subscribe to the channel, activate the bell \ud83d\udd14 and share the link \ud83d\udd17 to your social media! Thank you!<\/p>\n\n\n\n\n<\/iframe>\n<\/div><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Description<\/h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Today, we have the pleasure of hosting Nathan Wrigley, the man behind WP Builds and the WP Tavern podcast. In this episode, Nathan Wrigley takes us through his fascinating journey from building websites with HTML to becoming a prominent figure in the WordPress community. We discuss the transition from Drupal to WordPress, the growth of his podcast WP Builds, and his involvement with WP Tavern. We also discuss the perception of the younger generation and teenagers. Then Nathan shares valuable advice for aspiring podcasters, with a nerdy moment \ud83d\ude42 Don’t miss this episode filled with insights, personal stories, and practical advice from one of WordPress’s beloved podcasters. Whether you’re a WordPress enthusiast or an aspiring content creator, there’s something in this episode for everyone!<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Welcome to the inaugural episode of WPMondo!<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p> \ud83c\udfa7<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>\ud83d\udd17 Follow Nathan:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/wpbuilds.com\/\" class=\"ek-link\">WP Builds Website<\/a><br>X\/Twitter: <a href=\"https:\/\/x.com\/wpbuilds\" class=\"ek-link\">Nathan Wrigley @wpbuilds<\/a><br><a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/nathanwrigley\/\" class=\"ek-link\">LinkedIn<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>\ud83d\udd17 Follow us:<br><a href=\"https:\/\/youtu.be\/gBP7KYjPcVI\" class=\"ek-link\">Youtube episode<\/a><br><a href=\"https:\/\/wptoots.social\/@wpmondo\">Mastodon<\/a><br><a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/company\/wpmondo\">LinkedIn<\/a><br><a href=\"https:\/\/x.com\/wpmondo\">X\/Twitter<\/a><br><a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/WPMondo\/\" class=\"ek-link\">Facebook<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Episode Highlights<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>(upcoming)<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Recorded on: 16 July 2024<br>Published on: 6 August 2024<br>Video tool: Wave.video<br>\u00a9 WPMondo<br>Music: Valdi Sabev – Endless Sky<br>Keyframe Audio license and clearance: Endless Sea<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Transcript<\/h2>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-global-padding is-layout-constrained wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\n<p>WEBVTT<br>Kind: captions<br>Language: en-GB<\/p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity\"\/>\n\n\n\n<p>00:00:31.957 –> 00:00:38.287<br>Hi! Hello, everyone, and welcome to<br>Nathan Wrigley from WP Builds.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:00:39.707 –> 00:00:44.592<br>I’m so happy to have you here<br>on WP Mondo, a new web show.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:00:45.452 –> 00:00:49.052<br>And I’m looking forward to hear<br>your story, your personal story,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:00:49.052 –> 00:00:51.917<br>your story around<br>WordPress and<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:00:51.917 –> 00:00:53.367<br>your WP Builds.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:00:53.907 –> 00:00:58.582<br>And I want to let you<br>introduce yourself. Okay.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:00:58.582 –> 00:01:02.102<br>So first off, this is really<br>unusual for me because normally<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:01:02.102 –> 00:01:04.902<br>I’m in the other chair,<br>if you know what I mean.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:01:04.902 –> 00:01:06.397<br>Normally, I’m the person<br>person asking questions,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:01:06.397 –> 00:01:08.657<br>and so I’m gonna find this<br>a little bit peculiar.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:01:09.277 –> 00:01:12.317<br>Because I always ask that question<br>as well. Introduce yourself.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:01:12.317 –> 00:01:16.602<br>So, okay. Here we go. My name’s<br>Nathan Wrigley. I live in the UK.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:01:16.602 –> 00:01:19.882<br>I live in Yorkshire, which is<br>a really nice part of the UK.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:01:19.882 –> 00:01:22.542<br>Fairly, it’s kind of like three<br>quarters of the way between<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:01:22.827 –> 00:01:26.187<br>the bottom of the UK. Well,<br>the bottom of England and Scotland.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:01:26.187 –> 00:01:29.407<br>So it’s up in the north and it’s<br>pretty rural. Live close to the sea.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:01:29.547 –> 00:01:31.567<br>I have a family,<br>wife and three kids,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:01:32.122 –> 00:01:35.342<br>and all of that’s really nice as<br>well in this part of the world.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:01:35.722 –> 00:01:38.442<br>And I guess you wanna know about<br>the WordPress-y bit maybe.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:01:39.327 –> 00:01:42.687<br>I didn’t start WordPress as<br>as early as a lot of the people<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:01:42.687 –> 00:01:45.667<br>I interview when I do these<br>interviews on my podcast.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:01:46.127 –> 00:01:48.127<br>Some people have an incredible<br>heritage, you know,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:01:48.127 –> 00:01:51.532<br>going back almost two<br>decades in some cases.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:01:51.832 –> 00:01:53.772<br>For me, it was about<br>twenty fifteen.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:01:53.832 –> 00:01:57.132<br>I honestly can’t tell you the date,<br>but it was about twenty fifteen.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:01:57.257 –> 00:02:00.877<br>I’ve been building websites since<br>before the year two thousand.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:02:01.257 –> 00:02:05.677<br>Started off doing it in a text<br>editor, HTML, and then tables,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:02:06.662 –> 00:02:09.642<br>and then CSS came along, and<br>it was all very horrible.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:02:10.102 –> 00:02:13.862<br>And then discovered things like<br>Dreamweaver, which is an Adobe well,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:02:13.862 –> 00:02:17.167<br>it wasn’t originally Adobe,<br>but it became an Adobe product.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:02:17.467 –> 00:02:19.227<br>So played with<br>that for a while.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:02:19.227 –> 00:02:23.567<br>And then CMSs came along, PHP<br>started to get, you know, popular.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:02:23.872 –> 00:02:27.412<br>And I began playing with things like<br>Magento, and Drupal, and Joomla,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:02:28.112 –> 00:02:30.212<br>and got really,<br>really into Drupal,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:02:31.167 –> 00:02:35.267<br>on the same level as I am now into<br>WordPress. I was really fascinated by it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:02:35.487 –> 00:02:40.062<br>And then when the version<br>went from seven to eight,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:02:40.062 –> 00:02:41.502<br>I don’t know if you<br>know, but Drupal,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:02:41.502 –> 00:02:44.402<br>when they go from one<br>major release to another,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:02:44.622 –> 00:02:47.557<br>they kind of disregard a lot of<br>the heritage. They say, okay.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:02:47.557 –> 00:02:50.357<br>It’s a breaking change. If<br>you go from seven to eight,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:02:50.357 –> 00:02:52.357<br>you’re gonna have to<br>rebuild those sites.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:02:52.357 –> 00:02:55.842<br>Don’t click the button because that’s<br>not gonna be the way it works.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:02:56.142 –> 00:02:59.102<br>So I’ve done that a few times with<br>Drupal and thought, do you know what?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:02:59.102 –> 00:03:01.902<br>I’m fed up of that. Let’s go<br>to something a little bit more<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:03:01.902 –> 00:03:06.687<br>backwards compatible. So I, you know,<br>messed around and found WordPress,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:03:06.907 –> 00:03:10.447<br>installed it, and immediately thought<br>it was really nice to look at.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:03:10.692 –> 00:03:13.172<br>I know the UI hasn’t changed<br>in the admin much,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:03:13.172 –> 00:03:14.632<br>although that’s<br>about to change.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:03:15.332 –> 00:03:20.607<br>But at the time, the Drupal UI was<br>significantly\u2026 it was not as nice.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:03:20.607 –> 00:03:23.407<br>Let’s just leave it that way. It<br>wasn’t as nice as the WordPress UI,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:03:23.407 –> 00:03:27.262<br>so I thought, oh, okay. Let’s play<br>around with this, and that’s it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:03:27.262 –> 00:03:30.482<br>I’ve done nothing else ever since.<br>Literally done nothing else.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:03:30.782 –> 00:03:34.062<br>I’ve played with WordPress, tinkered with WordPress, built websites with<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:03:34.062 –> 00:03:37.497<br>WordPress, podcast about WordPress, dream about WordPress.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:03:37.907 –> 00:03:43.527<br>Oh. You know, just it’s all a bit pathetic,<br>really, but that’s the way it is.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:03:43.792 –> 00:03:45.312<br>And, and yeah.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:03:45.312 –> 00:03:50.932<br>And then, more recently, in about<br>the year twenty sixteen, I think it was,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:03:51.217 –> 00:03:54.037<br>I was in a Facebook group<br>about WordPress, you know,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:03:54.177 –> 00:03:58.917<br>and got chatting to a chap there and<br>an English fella called David Waumsley.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:03:59.592 –> 00:04:02.392<br>And I can’t even remember how<br>it happened, but it basically,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:04:02.392 –> 00:04:04.732<br>I asked him the question,<br>do you wanna do a podcast?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:04:05.032 –> 00:04:08.727<br>You know, like you do. And he said,<br>yeah. Alright. Let’s give it a go.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:04:08.727 –> 00:04:12.087<br>And I don’t honestly think any<br>of us had either of us had any<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:04:12.087 –> 00:04:14.247<br>expectation that we’d do it<br>for any length of time.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:04:14.247 –> 00:04:16.452<br>We just thought, let’s<br>see what it’s like.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:04:17.232 –> 00:04:22.752<br>And I haven’t not done it since then.<br>And I’m in, you know, what is that?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:04:22.752 –> 00:04:25.412<br>It’s not eight and eight and<br>a bit years or something now.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:04:25.667 –> 00:04:28.227<br>Produced episodes pretty much<br>every week, and it’s grown.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:04:28.227 –> 00:04:31.747<br>And now it’s what I do. David<br>Waumsley is now no longer<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:04:31.747 –> 00:04:34.787<br>doing the WP Builds podcast with<br>me, but he’s still a good friend,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:04:34.787 –> 00:04:36.952<br>and we speak a lot and<br>do another podcast,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:04:37.892 –> 00:04:39.412<br>which has nothing to<br>do with WordPress.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:04:39.412 –> 00:04:42.232<br>It’s all about HTML,<br>CSS, and web standards.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:04:43.147 –> 00:04:47.627<br>But I won’t promote that here because<br>that’s not WordPress related.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:04:47.627 –> 00:04:52.462<br>But yeah. Yeah. Is that enough?<br>Can I should I stop now? Yeah.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:04:52.462 –> 00:04:56.322<br>That was a pretty long introduction.<br>Yeah. Go. Great. Okay. Thank you.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:04:56.462 –> 00:04:59.582<br>There’s nothing else to say.<br>The first thing I wanted<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:04:59.582 –> 00:05:03.667<br>to say is that the goal, yes, of<br>this category is host the host.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:05:03.727 –> 00:05:07.567<br>And it’s because you put the light<br>on other people when you host them.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:05:07.567 –> 00:05:11.492<br>And that’s the goal to have you<br>to have the light on you for once.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:05:11.492 –> 00:05:12.932<br>Yeah. You know?<br>That’s why,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:05:13.652 –> 00:05:17.172<br>I contacted you and other<br>people in the same, I mean,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:05:17.172 –> 00:05:21.327<br>other interviewers and hosts of,<br>of other shows and podcasts.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:05:22.107 –> 00:05:28.777<br>And yeah. Great. And, yes, I remember<br>the Drupal seven to eight period.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:05:29.412 –> 00:05:34.952<br>But, yeah, Drupal is, good and as it’s<br>I mean, they’re to each their own,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:05:35.092 –> 00:05:40.197<br>and I think they are good use<br>cases for other CMSs as well.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:05:40.437 –> 00:05:44.037<br>Yeah. I think so. Yeah.<br>I really didn’t I didn’t have<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:05:44.037 –> 00:05:47.317<br>any objection to Drupal. It was<br>just that, I just, I don’t know.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:05:47.317 –> 00:05:51.822<br>You know how when you just get<br>a little bit, what’s the word?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:05:51.962 –> 00:05:54.442<br>When you’re over familiar with<br>something and I’ve been using<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:05:54.442 –> 00:05:58.917<br>Drupal for years and I cast my net around and it just looked so nice.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:05:58.917 –> 00:06:01.337<br>And then I discovered<br>the community much later.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:06:01.557 –> 00:06:04.197<br>And that was, I think, the glue<br>that held me in WordPress and<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:06:04.197 –> 00:06:06.982<br>meant that I wasn’t gonna go<br>anywhere because I didn’t find<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:06:06.982 –> 00:06:11.242<br>that same community in Drupal. I know<br>it exists, but I never found it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:06:11.542 –> 00:06:13.462<br>Perhaps if I had, I would<br>have stayed with Drupal.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:06:13.462 –> 00:06:15.047<br>But, I found<br>the WordPress community,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:06:15.047 –> 00:06:18.407<br>and that’s the sort of glue that<br>bound me to it for the last,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:06:18.407 –> 00:06:21.822<br>well, nine years or<br>so. Yeah. Yeah.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:06:22.142 –> 00:06:25.582<br>So, you mean the community<br>and especially,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:06:25.822 –> 00:06:28.702<br>I will talk about WordCamp Europe<br>because at WordCamp Europe,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:06:28.702 –> 00:06:31.682<br>we are meeting people<br>from all over the world.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:06:33.587 –> 00:06:37.367<br>So it’s very\u2026 that feeling<br>that we get when we arrive.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:06:37.667 –> 00:06:40.787<br>I was not an organizer before. This<br>year it was a bit different.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:06:40.787 –> 00:06:44.702<br>But, I mean, when you arrive and you<br>you know that you are going to,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:06:44.702 –> 00:06:47.262<br>oh, I’m going to see Nathan.<br>I’m going to see Bob,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:06:47.262 –> 00:06:50.542<br>and I’m going to see my friends from,<br>I don’t know, Bangladesh and Japan.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:06:50.542 –> 00:06:53.887<br>You know? Yeah. I love that.<br>Yeah. Me too. It’s great.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:06:53.887 –> 00:06:55.887<br>Those events are properly<br>brilliant, actually.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:06:55.887 –> 00:06:59.552<br>And if you’re listening to this and you’ve<br>never attended a WordPress event,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:06:59.552 –> 00:07:01.392<br>whether that’s, you know,<br>a more local Meetup,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:07:01.392 –> 00:07:04.432<br>which is probably just one<br>evening or something like that,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:07:04.432 –> 00:07:07.712<br>or a local WordCamp, which<br>might be a day or two days.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:07:07.712 –> 00:07:10.007<br>I actually went to<br>one on Friday. Yeah.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:07:10.247 –> 00:07:12.247<br>In Whitley Bay, and that was<br>just one day, you know,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:07:12.247 –> 00:07:15.127<br>began at nine in the morning and<br>finished at, I don’t know, half four,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:07:15.127 –> 00:07:17.447<br>five, something like that.<br>That was really nice as well.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:07:17.447 –> 00:07:21.832<br>The, it’s profoundly friendly. It<br>would be my message, you know.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:07:21.832 –> 00:07:25.512<br>And if you’re very gregarious<br>and outgoing, you won’t hesitate,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:07:25.512 –> 00:07:27.127<br>will you? You just<br>go and enjoy it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:07:27.127 –> 00:07:30.327<br>But if you’re a bit more<br>introverted or shy, then,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:07:30.647 –> 00:07:34.187<br>fear not because it really is<br>very, very, very welcoming.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:07:34.802 –> 00:07:38.962<br>And, over a period of years, you do<br>get some great friendships going on,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:07:38.962 –> 00:07:42.402<br>don’t you? And you meet people and they attend events repeatedly like you.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:07:42.402 –> 00:07:46.037<br>And so very soon, you’re in<br>a room full of friends rather<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:07:46.037 –> 00:07:49.017<br>than a room full of would be<br>friends or strangers. It’s lovely.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:07:49.637 –> 00:07:54.242<br>Yes. I totally agree with you,<br>and I’m a WordCamp addict.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:07:54.382 –> 00:07:58.482<br>Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And if I could,<br>I would go on every continent.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:07:58.782 –> 00:08:02.297<br>Yeah. Oh, that’d be nice.<br>Let’s travel together. Yeah.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:08:02.777 –> 00:08:06.637<br>And go somewhere,<br>some places. Okay.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:08:06.937 –> 00:08:13.372<br>So, you mentioned that you were<br>doing, like, work for clients with,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:08:13.692 –> 00:08:19.817<br>websites before to have a show. Are you still doing that or in parallel?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:08:19.877 –> 00:08:24.437<br>No. I there was a, so okay. So I was<br>doing, you know, freelance work.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:08:24.437 –> 00:08:26.132<br>It was very much<br>a local business.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:08:26.132 –> 00:08:27.812<br>So it was just me,<br>but I would,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:08:28.132 –> 00:08:30.932<br>get in other people to help<br>me with bits that I wasn’t<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:08:30.932 –> 00:08:33.807<br>particularly good at<br>or willing to do.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:08:34.127 –> 00:08:36.227<br>And and that would that<br>worked really well.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:08:36.287 –> 00:08:41.007<br>Being, a little rural is the wrong word,<br>but it’s a small community.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:08:41.007 –> 00:08:44.502<br>I don’t live in a big city, and it<br>means that you get to know everybody.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:08:45.202 –> 00:08:49.282<br>And it didn’t take long for me when we<br>moved here to sort of establish that,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:08:49.282 –> 00:08:53.027<br>and so word-of-mouth travels. And so I<br>was building client websites for years.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:08:53.027 –> 00:08:55.667<br>And then the podcast<br>was just a gimmick.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:08:55.667 –> 00:08:57.347<br>It was just something<br>for a bit of fun.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:08:57.347 –> 00:09:01.782<br>It was entirely the sort of<br>thing that I would do on an evening<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:09:01.782 –> 00:09:05.062<br>or a weekend. But slowly, the two<br>things went in different directions.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:09:05.062 –> 00:09:09.527<br>So the client one went down as<br>the podcasting one went up.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:09:10.307 –> 00:09:14.227<br>And then at some point, I couldn’t<br>tell you when, several years ago,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:09:14.227 –> 00:09:17.532<br>I said farewell to<br>my last client.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:09:17.532 –> 00:09:21.472<br>And now I just do<br>podcasting, which is a,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:09:21.772 –> 00:09:23.932<br>a thing that my children<br>can’t quite cope with.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:09:23.932 –> 00:09:27.787<br>You know, when people say, what do you do for a living? And I do a podcast.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:09:28.327 –> 00:09:30.647<br>There’s always this<br>impression that, oh, yeah.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:09:30.647 –> 00:09:34.492<br>That’s not really a job, is it?<br>What are you doing with your life?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:09:34.652 –> 00:09:38.812<br>But, that is now what I do. I make<br>content, audio content, video content,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:09:38.812 –> 00:09:42.647<br>that kind of thing. So, yeah,<br>the clients are gone. Okay. Okay.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:09:42.787 –> 00:09:46.727<br>And when you were working<br>with clients at the same time,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:09:47.747 –> 00:09:52.682<br>how did you manage time between<br>the two activities? I would say. Yeah.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:09:53.222 –> 00:09:56.422<br>Basically, I just did the podcast<br>as an evening and weekend thing.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:09:56.422 –> 00:09:59.402<br>So I would do it in<br>the evenings and weekends,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:10:00.207 –> 00:10:03.007<br>just in my own spare time and<br>keep the client things going<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:10:03.007 –> 00:10:06.927<br>during the Monday to Friday. So<br>there was never really an overlap<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:10:06.927 –> 00:10:09.107<br>in terms of time. One<br>didn’t eat the other,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:10:09.422 –> 00:10:13.672<br>but it became obvious to me that the podcast was something that I was<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:10:13.862 –> 00:10:17.107<br>really, really into. I\u2026 do<br>you know what?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:10:17.107 –> 00:10:20.707<br>I have this habit in my life,<br>and maybe you can identify with<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:10:20.707 –> 00:10:22.627<br>this if you’re the same<br>kind of character as me.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:10:22.627 –> 00:10:24.567<br>I’m not very good at<br>sticking with things.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:10:24.862 –> 00:10:28.402<br>I begin things and then very<br>quickly begin another thing.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:10:28.462 –> 00:10:31.902<br>And then soon after that, I’ll begin<br>another thing and another thing.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:10:31.902 –> 00:10:33.857<br>And so it goes, and the things<br>never get finished.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:10:33.857 –> 00:10:36.277<br>I’m a good starter,<br>a terrible executor.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:10:37.057 –> 00:10:42.097<br>But podcasting stuck, and there<br>was no reason for it to stick.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:10:42.097 –> 00:10:45.872<br>It wasn’t something that I was you know, it wasn’t generating any revenue.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:10:45.872 –> 00:10:50.772<br>It wasn’t something that was, other than<br>it was it was just consuming my time,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:10:50.957 –> 00:10:53.677<br>But I kept doing it.<br>And so at some point,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:10:53.677 –> 00:10:56.557<br>my intuitions obviously clicked<br>into gear and thought,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:10:56.557 –> 00:10:59.892<br>you must like this on a fairly<br>deep level if, you know,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:10:59.892 –> 00:11:02.852<br>if you can’t commit to anything in<br>life, but you can commit to this,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:11:02.852 –> 00:11:06.907<br>you must enjoy it. So, yeah, so<br>at some point I just thought,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:11:06.907 –> 00:11:10.507<br>well, what if I drop<br>the clients a little bit and go<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:11:10.507 –> 00:11:13.922<br>in search of sponsorship?<br>And so that’s what I did.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:11:13.922 –> 00:11:17.842<br>And the sponsorship kind of took<br>over the client work and then<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:11:17.842 –> 00:11:21.122<br>I got increasingly into the sponsorship<br>thing and not the client thing.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:11:21.122 –> 00:11:25.587<br>And then, you know, the rest is what<br>it is, history. Nice. That’s nice.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:11:25.587 –> 00:11:30.992<br>Nice story. Can I ask you how old are<br>your children for being embarrassed?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:11:31.452 –> 00:11:34.652<br>Yeah. No. No. No. It’s fine. My<br>well, I’ve got three children.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:11:34.652 –> 00:11:36.352<br>I have a daughter<br>who’s twenty.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:11:36.547 –> 00:11:40.647<br>I have a son who’s seventeen, and<br>I have another son, and he’s fifteen.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:11:40.787 –> 00:11:43.507<br>And so they’re at that lovely<br>age where they, you know,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:11:43.507 –> 00:11:45.447<br>they’ve got their own mind<br>and their own agenda.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:11:46.732 –> 00:11:48.832<br>But, unfortunately, they<br>don’t have their own cars.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:11:49.372 –> 00:11:54.332<br>So, I have to take them everywhere<br>still. Yeah. Because of the rural area.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:11:54.332 –> 00:11:56.917<br>Yeah. Yeah. The taxi service<br>is what I’ve become.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:11:56.917 –> 00:11:59.317<br>But they are at that lovely age<br>where you can talk to them on<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:11:59.317 –> 00:12:01.557<br>a deep and profound level, and<br>they have their own opinions,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:12:01.557 –> 00:12:03.797<br>and their opinions<br>differ from yours.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:12:03.797 –> 00:12:07.672<br>And, sometimes that’s good,<br>sometimes it’s not so good,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:12:07.672 –> 00:12:09.852<br>but, yeah, lovely age,<br>enjoying that a lot.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:12:10.152 –> 00:12:14.417<br>So, yeah, so you said they<br>it was strange for them to say,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:12:14.737 –> 00:12:17.317<br>your father is doing<br>a podcast or? Yeah.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:12:17.537 –> 00:12:19.697<br>Just kind of like, you<br>know, what do you do?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:12:19.697 –> 00:12:21.217<br>I mean, most people where<br>we live, you know,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:12:21.217 –> 00:12:24.092<br>they own a shop or they’ve got a job,<br>they’re doing this, they’re doing that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:12:24.092 –> 00:12:27.372<br>There’s not many there’s not many<br>podcasters sprinkled throughout the,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:12:27.692 –> 00:12:31.387<br>the society, I wouldn’t imagine. If<br>you were lining up a thousand people.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:12:31.447 –> 00:12:34.347<br>I’m pretty sure that almost none<br>of them would be a podcaster.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:12:34.407 –> 00:12:37.207<br>So it’s a pretty quirky<br>thing to do, I think.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:12:37.207 –> 00:12:43.152<br>But, also, I think my\u2026 I’m gonna I’ll<br>say this. I’ll embarrass them a bit.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:12:44.332 –> 00:12:47.712<br>My kids have this relationship<br>with things like YouTube where,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:12:47.977 –> 00:12:50.617<br>you know, they watch a YouTube<br>video and it’s all very glamorous<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:12:50.617 –> 00:12:52.937<br>and the people are doing<br>amazing things and, you know,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:12:52.937 –> 00:12:56.297<br>they’re famous and they’re doing<br>stupid things and all of this and,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:12:56.297 –> 00:12:58.072<br>you know, it just<br>looks like brilliant.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:12:58.072 –> 00:13:00.552<br>And so they take the mickey out<br>of me because the production<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:13:00.552 –> 00:13:03.192<br>values of my podcast<br>is not that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:13:03.192 –> 00:13:06.467<br>You know, I don’t have this<br>massive budget to go out and do<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:13:06.467 –> 00:13:10.387<br>crazy things like Mr. Beast does.<br>Yeah. And so that’s the comparison.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:13:10.387 –> 00:13:12.887<br>You know, they’re like, you<br>know, they just make fun.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:13:13.292 –> 00:13:15.132<br>They tell me, do you<br>say this sort of thing?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:13:15.132 –> 00:13:17.932<br>Do you say this sort of thing?<br>And no. I don’t go any of that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:13:17.932 –> 00:13:23.557<br>But, yeah, it’s fun. My three kids<br>are two years younger than yours each.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:13:23.557 –> 00:13:27.677<br>So Oh, interesting. The elder<br>is seventeen. Okay.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:13:27.677 –> 00:13:30.717<br>And I don’t remember if it was<br>the first or the second<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:13:30.797 –> 00:13:32.832<br>my second son who<br>said\u2026 I said,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:13:32.832 –> 00:13:35.812<br>I’m going to start a YouTube<br>channel and one replied,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:13:36.192 –> 00:13:40.212<br>I’m going to stop laughing when you get<br>at least one thousand subscribers.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:13:40.352 –> 00:13:44.737<br>Yeah. There you go. There you go.<br>That’s the yeah. Similar reaction.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:13:44.737 –> 00:13:49.302<br>You know? I’ll laugh until you<br>make a go of it. Yeah.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:13:49.302 –> 00:13:54.502<br>Yeah. And are they into<br>WordCamps? No. Gosh. No.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:13:54.662 –> 00:13:59.277<br>It was interesting because,<br>during lockdown, COVID,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:13:59.737 –> 00:14:04.057<br>the one of the first intuitions that I had was, well, we need projects because,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:14:04.057 –> 00:14:06.297<br>you know, this was in that<br>period where the schools hadn’t<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:14:06.297 –> 00:14:09.132<br>made any adjustments and<br>everybody was kinda left to their<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:14:09.132 –> 00:14:13.212<br>own devices a little bit. So I<br>I sat them all down in front<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:14:13.212 –> 00:14:17.287<br>of a fresh install of WordPress, and<br>I had this great ambition that this,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:14:17.287 –> 00:14:19.687<br>right, this is what we’re gonna do<br>during the course of this week.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:14:19.687 –> 00:14:20.887<br>We’re all gonna<br>build a website.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:14:20.887 –> 00:14:23.127<br>Each of us can have our own<br>website and I’ll publish it and<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:14:23.127 –> 00:14:27.262<br>I’ll get the domain. And honestly,<br>it lasted about an hour.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:14:28.522 –> 00:14:32.942<br>It was so uninteresting to them and<br>I was really kind of enthusiastic.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:14:33.082 –> 00:14:36.287<br>Look what you can do this. But<br>actually it was quite illustrative<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:14:36.507 –> 00:14:40.187<br>as well as how\u2026<br>how to describe it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:14:40.187 –> 00:14:42.792<br>If you’re not interested<br>in it, it’s hard.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:14:43.012 –> 00:14:46.212<br>It can be hard to put a website<br>together even with all the tools<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:14:46.212 –> 00:14:48.902<br>and the plugins and the great things that we’ve got in the WordPress<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:14:48.947 –> 00:14:53.087<br>ecosystem. It was a great demonstration of unless you’re really<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:14:53.087 –> 00:14:56.067<br>unless you’re quite committed to it,<br>building a website is still<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:14:56.447 –> 00:14:59.982<br>potentially quite hard. And<br>and they came across so many<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:14:59.982 –> 00:15:02.862<br>problems in the space of half<br>an hour, and I answered them all.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:15:02.862 –> 00:15:05.262<br>And, okay. No. You have to do that.<br>Why do you have to do that?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:15:05.262 –> 00:15:09.517<br>Why? why? You just do. Alright?<br>That’s just the way it is. Yeah.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:15:09.517 –> 00:15:13.117<br>And, but they yeah. None of them<br>none of them managed to get<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:15:13.117 –> 00:15:19.352<br>over the line of producing a website. So<br>I was a failure. I can relate so much.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:15:19.352 –> 00:15:22.172<br>It’s, for my teenagers,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:15:22.312 –> 00:15:25.667<br>it’s like that’s the things for<br>the old people. You know?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:15:25.667 –> 00:15:28.547<br>Right. Right. Yeah. And that<br>that’s actually a struggle in<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:15:28.547 –> 00:15:31.667<br>the WordPress community, and how<br>to engage the younger generation<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:15:31.667 –> 00:15:34.392<br>is a real question.<br>You know? Yeah.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:15:34.392 –> 00:15:37.592<br>So They’re kind of, my<br>my children have been raised<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:15:37.592 –> 00:15:42.617<br>in an era where every human being<br>that they encounter has a mobile phone.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:15:43.497 –> 00:15:46.937<br>And every human being that they<br>encounter is connected through<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:15:46.937 –> 00:15:49.817<br>some social network.<br>And so, you know,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:15:49.817 –> 00:15:54.372<br>there’s tools to publish, and<br>the idea of ownership to them,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:15:54.372 –> 00:15:58.052<br>which is an important bedrock of<br>of WordPress is that, you know,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:15:58.052 –> 00:16:02.347<br>you own your own data. But that’s quite<br>a hard thing to get a hold of.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:16:02.347 –> 00:16:03.807<br>Why why would that<br>be important?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:16:03.947 –> 00:16:06.827<br>Because, you know, if I<br>put it on I don’t know.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:16:06.827 –> 00:16:09.627<br>I say things like Facebook,<br>and none of my children well,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:16:09.627 –> 00:16:12.652<br>my children tell me that no children<br>of their age use Facebook,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:16:12.652 –> 00:16:16.752<br>not one. They’re all on these other<br>platforms. There’s myriad other things.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:16:17.052 –> 00:16:19.132<br>But they, you know, they<br>haven’t encountered that,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:16:19.132 –> 00:16:22.247<br>and it’s okay for them to<br>post it on those networks,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:16:22.247 –> 00:16:23.927<br>and they don’t see<br>the importance of that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:16:23.927 –> 00:16:25.607<br>I guess one day, maybe<br>that’ll bite them, you know,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:16:25.607 –> 00:16:28.312<br>if an account gets hacked or<br>an account gets canceled<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:16:28.312 –> 00:16:31.612<br>or deleted or something like that,<br>perhaps that will hit home.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:16:31.912 –> 00:16:34.312<br>But the social networks<br>and all of those things,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:16:34.312 –> 00:16:35.912<br>they provide what they<br>want. They can publish.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:16:35.912 –> 00:16:38.557<br>And that they haven’t got an interest<br>in publishing to the population<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:16:38.617 –> 00:16:40.077<br>as a whole, you<br>know, the world.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:16:40.297 –> 00:16:43.337<br>They’re just interested in the direct<br>communication or the group<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:16:43.337 –> 00:16:46.122<br>messaging or whatever<br>it may be. And I yeah.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:16:46.122 –> 00:16:47.802<br>And I think in<br>the WordPress space,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:16:47.802 –> 00:16:50.202<br>we are gonna struggle with<br>the generational thing.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:16:50.202 –> 00:16:53.497<br>You only have to go to a big<br>WordCamp to see the age.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:16:53.497 –> 00:16:57.257<br>There’s not many teenagers there,<br>is there? Not really. Yeah.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:16:57.257 –> 00:17:01.597<br>Indeed. I actually there<br>was, twenty two years old,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:17:02.137 –> 00:17:04.872<br>at the Switzerland Community<br>Day that we\u2026 Oh, nice.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:17:05.072 –> 00:17:10.052<br>Organized some time ago, and<br>she’s, aspiring teacher.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:17:10.327 –> 00:17:13.927<br>Oh, nice. And yeah. And then<br>and what she said, it’s actually<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:17:13.927 –> 00:17:15.687<br>in the notes.<br>We took notes.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:17:15.687 –> 00:17:19.067<br>It was a conversation about<br>Meetups, WordCamps, contribution.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:17:19.562 –> 00:17:23.822<br>And it was, yeah,<br>like, eye opening. She said<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:17:24.602 –> 00:17:30.017<br>the competing proprietary platforms are<br>working with influencers on TikTok.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:17:31.437 –> 00:17:35.437<br>They pay them, and so there are,<br>like, four hundred, five hundred,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:17:35.837 –> 00:17:38.977<br>influencers that<br>promote that platform.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:17:39.792 –> 00:17:44.432<br>You know, also starting with a w,<br>but in three letters. Yeah.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:17:44.432 –> 00:17:46.832<br>And they have giant marketing<br>teams as well, you know,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:17:46.832 –> 00:17:48.452<br>because because<br>they’re a for profit.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:17:49.507 –> 00:17:52.787<br>And I don’t have any clue what<br>kind of revenue stream they have,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:17:52.787 –> 00:17:55.767<br>but I’m imagining it’s<br>fairly fairly decent.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:17:56.232 –> 00:17:58.792<br>And they\u2026 my understanding is<br>they’ve got a marketing team of<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:17:58.792 –> 00:18:01.112<br>about four hundred people. I’m<br>getting this from, I think,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:18:01.112 –> 00:18:03.532<br>Jamie Marsland came<br>with that statistic.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:18:04.232 –> 00:18:06.337<br>And, and that’s<br>big, you know,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:18:06.337 –> 00:18:08.837<br>because we don’t have anything like<br>that because it’s a philanthropic<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:18:08.977 –> 00:18:12.197<br>effort and the marketing team<br>is made up of volunteers.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:18:13.342 –> 00:18:16.622<br>We’ve got an uphill struggle because<br>most people, I would imagine,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:18:16.622 –> 00:18:19.997<br>if they’re looking for a website,<br>they’re gonna be influenced by,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:18:20.077 –> 00:18:23.937<br>you know, I’ve seen that three<br>letter word. Yes. Creation tool.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:18:24.317 –> 00:18:28.892<br>Yeah. That’s why, she<br>said if we would have young<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:18:28.892 –> 00:18:32.652<br>influencers doing the same for<br>WordPress, it would be a game changer.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:18:32.652 –> 00:18:35.767<br>That was the game changer<br>word that struck me.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:18:35.927 –> 00:18:41.387<br>And, also, I remember in 2023<br>in WordCamp Europe in Athens,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:18:41.847 –> 00:18:48.062<br>there was a talk by Tycho de Valk<br>Okay. He’s showing Yeah.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:18:48.062 –> 00:18:53.022<br>Yeah. Yeah. I hope I don’t<br>destroy his name too much.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:18:53.022 –> 00:18:55.137<br>But, yeah, what he<br>said is, like,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:18:55.137 –> 00:18:57.777<br>he has shown he was sixteen<br>years old that year,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:18:57.777 –> 00:19:00.217<br>and he said I have<br>shown the oh, okay.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:19:00.217 –> 00:19:04.362<br>I will say the name, the Wix and<br>Shopify and WordPress, three,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:19:04.362 –> 00:19:08.602<br>like, admin dashboard.<br>And, yeah,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:19:08.602 –> 00:19:12.267<br>the which one they recognised<br>among his friends of the same<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:19:12.267 –> 00:19:16.347<br>age and which one they preferred,<br>which one they like,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:19:16.347 –> 00:19:19.622<br>and it was more engaging to<br>to work on it. You know?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:19:19.622 –> 00:19:24.122<br>Really things that we have<br>to work on. You know?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:19:24.742 –> 00:19:28.257<br>And yeah, that’s and you<br>mentioned Jamie Marsland.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:19:28.797 –> 00:19:34.437<br>I love the video when his daughters come on Oh. On video and Yeah.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:19:34.557 –> 00:19:38.112<br>And they are, like, total beginners<br>and say, okay. Let’s try this.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:19:38.112 –> 00:19:43.652<br>And, oh, it was nice. It worked. And,<br>yeah, I will try to interview them.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:19:43.767 –> 00:19:48.762<br>I might, put chunks<br>of the videos, the, like,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:19:48.762 –> 00:19:53.262<br>best sentences on TikTok. Okay.<br>If you agree. I agree.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:19:53.642 –> 00:19:59.022<br>I managed to have my first<br>son to be a volunteer at<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:19:59.642 –> 00:20:03.217<br>WordCamp Geneva two<br>years ago. But, well,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:20:03.517 –> 00:20:08.497<br>he came because I said there will be<br>a speaker dinner and an after party.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:20:09.037 –> 00:20:12.452<br>yes. You, you use the carrot and<br>yeah. You use the carrot approach.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:20:12.452 –> 00:20:15.112<br>Yeah. That’s it. There’ll be<br>there’ll be prizes. Come along.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:20:17.572 –> 00:20:19.352<br>Anyway. Yeah. Okay.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:20:19.737 –> 00:20:24.377<br>So, being a podcaster in a rural<br>area with teenagers is,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:20:24.777 –> 00:20:27.622<br>like you are the weirdo.<br>Right? That’s right.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:20:27.622 –> 00:20:32.182<br>I mean, this about sums it up,<br>Patricia. That’s is about right.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:20:32.182 –> 00:20:37.007<br>I am the weirdo. I’ll take that.<br>That’s good. Okay. Okay.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:20:37.007 –> 00:20:42.227<br>I will put that in the tagline<br>or something. Okay.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:20:42.367 –> 00:20:46.467<br>So, about WP Builds, really.<br>When it started,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:20:46.992 –> 00:20:50.592<br>I think now you’re episode<br>three hundred and two. Right?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:20:50.592 –> 00:20:54.512<br>Yeah. So we’ve got, we’ve got three<br>hundred and oh, it’s over here.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:20:54.512 –> 00:20:56.647<br>I’m editing it on another<br>screen right next to me.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:20:56.647 –> 00:21:00.667<br>The next episode coming on Thursday<br>is on three hundred and eighty one.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:21:01.607 –> 00:21:03.207<br>And then but we also<br>do another show.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:21:03.207 –> 00:21:05.127<br>So that’s one show that<br>comes out on a Thursday.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:21:05.127 –> 00:21:07.122<br>That’s just called I<br>don’t even have a name,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:21:07.122 –> 00:21:10.002<br>and that’s just called WP Builds<br>Podcast or something. Yeah.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:21:10.002 –> 00:21:14.562<br>Okay. And then I do a show on Monday,<br>which is called This Week in WordPress,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:21:14.562 –> 00:21:18.467<br>and that’s a different one. And we’re<br>on three hundred and two of those.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:21:18.467 –> 00:21:22.547<br>So that’s a combined what’s that?<br>Six hundred and eighty three.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:21:22.547 –> 00:21:24.592<br>Gosh. I’ve never actually<br>worked that out.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:21:24.592 –> 00:21:27.472<br>Six hundred and eighty three episodes<br>is what we’ve managed to do.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:21:27.472 –> 00:21:29.632<br>Plus countless other you know,<br>we’ve done loads of, like,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:21:29.632 –> 00:21:33.012<br>webinars and videos with product<br>creators and stuff like that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:21:33.077 –> 00:21:36.377<br>It’s all on the website. So,<br>yeah, quite a few.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:21:36.997 –> 00:21:40.937<br>I like the format of the<br>This Week in WordPress,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:21:41.662 –> 00:21:45.902<br>because it’s live and people can<br>comment. I do that quite frequently.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:21:45.902 –> 00:21:50.642<br>Yeah. It’s great. Thank you. That’s<br>lovely. There is always a lot of fun.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:21:50.847 –> 00:21:53.427<br>Yeah. Yeah. I like<br>that format.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:21:54.767 –> 00:21:57.992<br>Live can be, I mean,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:21:59.112 –> 00:22:02.712<br>did you already have people<br>who said they do not want to come?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:22:02.712 –> 00:22:04.632<br>Maybe you ask them,<br>do you want to join,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:22:04.632 –> 00:22:08.837<br>but they feared<br>the live format. Yeah.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:22:08.837 –> 00:22:11.637<br>So this is kind of an interesting<br>transition as well,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:22:11.797 –> 00:22:13.817<br>in that when I<br>began the podcast,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:22:13.877 –> 00:22:17.942<br>it was very much a process of<br>going out to people and asking<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:22:17.942 –> 00:22:19.482<br>if they wanted to<br>be on a podcast.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:22:19.782 –> 00:22:21.782<br>And of course, how<br>else would you do it?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:22:21.782 –> 00:22:24.502<br>You know, you’ve got to start<br>and you’ve got, you, you know,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:22:24.502 –> 00:22:27.437<br>you’ve created this idea and<br>you want to get people on it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:22:27.437 –> 00:22:31.217<br>But then at some point the balance<br>went the other way and it was,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:22:31.677 –> 00:22:36.497<br>it then became that I had, I just put<br>a form online and it got filled up.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:22:37.022 –> 00:22:41.202<br>So no is the answer to your<br>question because the expectation<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:22:41.262 –> 00:22:45.307<br>is that if you fill out that<br>form, you must wish to come on.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:22:45.307 –> 00:22:49.727<br>And so no. And as luck would have it, we’ve always had a bunch of people<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:22:49.747 –> 00:22:53.192<br>who are, willing to speak. You know, obviously that’s an important part.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:22:53.202 –> 00:22:55.602<br>If you’re gonna go on a live show,<br>you need to be willing to,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:22:55.602 –> 00:22:59.357<br>like, contribute and<br>sometimes, you know,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:22:59.357 –> 00:23:02.497<br>be talked over and talk over other<br>people and just accept that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:23:03.437 –> 00:23:07.697<br>But also, fairly outgoing, I guess,<br>and a little bit confident.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:23:08.162 –> 00:23:11.462<br>We have product creators, and we<br>have people who are just community.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:23:12.322 –> 00:23:14.422<br>So no. Not not too<br>much of that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:23:15.137 –> 00:23:18.677<br>And I’ve never really had to pull<br>an episode because the person,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:23:18.977 –> 00:23:22.577<br>you know, wasn’t that gregarious or<br>willing to talk or whatever it was.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:23:22.577 –> 00:23:25.442<br>I’m quite happy<br>to actually,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:23:25.442 –> 00:23:27.682<br>there’s a few episodes where<br>people have got back in touch<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:23:27.682 –> 00:23:30.342<br>with me before I’ve published it<br>and said, can we do it again?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:23:30.962 –> 00:23:34.627<br>Because they weren’t happy with<br>some answer that they’d given.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:23:34.797 –> 00:23:39.027<br>And I said, yeah. It was fine. So we<br>just rerecorded the whole thing,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:23:39.027 –> 00:23:42.592<br>but avoided whatever it was that<br>they thought they done badly.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:23:42.652 –> 00:23:45.692<br>And yeah. So I’ve forgotten<br>the original question.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:23:45.692 –> 00:23:48.812<br>But, anyway, that was my answer<br>to whatever it was. Yeah.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:23:48.812 –> 00:23:52.437<br>I guess when you talk about<br>the people who ask you to redo,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:23:52.437 –> 00:23:55.957<br>it’s for the recorded one that,<br>that is published on Thursday.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:23:55.957 –> 00:23:59.952<br>But I was, specifically talking<br>about the live format<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:23:59.952 –> 00:24:02.432<br>because you cannot redo a live.<br>No. You really can’t.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:24:02.432 –> 00:24:05.952<br>And also we have things go wrong<br>with the live one because it’s live,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:24:05.952 –> 00:24:10.217<br>you know. So sometimes the audio<br>on people’s side doesn’t work.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:24:10.217 –> 00:24:13.897<br>We had, who was it? I think it might<br>have been oh, I can’t remember.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:24:13.897 –> 00:24:18.222<br>But one of the guests, every<br>time they, refresh the browser,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:24:18.222 –> 00:24:20.772<br>we got the frame of<br>what they were doing, the<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:24:20.772 –> 00:24:24.122<br>exact moment they came on the show and then that just stayed. You know<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:24:24.122 –> 00:24:26.547<br>so they were completely frozen<br>It was like looking at a photograph.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:24:26.627 –> 00:24:30.787<br>Their audio worked, but the.. oh, it’s<br>Tim Nash who was on the other day.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:24:31.662 –> 00:24:34.062<br>And he was just frozen,<br>but his audio worked and then<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:24:34.062 –> 00:24:35.822<br>he’d refresh and we’d<br>get a new version.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:24:35.822 –> 00:24:38.542<br>So he mixed it up<br>a little bit and, you know,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:24:38.542 –> 00:24:40.477<br>went to different parts of<br>the room and things like that<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:24:40.477 –> 00:24:42.817<br>and press refresh so that it<br>was all a bit entertaining.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:24:43.037 –> 00:24:46.157<br>You can make something good<br>out of something bad with a live show.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:24:46.157 –> 00:24:50.132<br>So long as the, so long as my<br>Internet doesn’t break, then it’ll,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:24:50.452 –> 00:24:52.152<br>it will just keep<br>tracking. Yeah.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:24:52.612 –> 00:24:57.337<br>Even if your Internet<br>breaks and you are not here,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:24:57.337 –> 00:25:00.697<br>I think the live is continuing<br>with the guests. Right? Yeah.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:25:00.697 –> 00:25:04.352<br>With this tool. I mean, the same<br>tool that we you both use.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:25:04.812 –> 00:25:07.612<br>Yeah. So that’s true. It well,<br>actually, in the settings,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:25:07.612 –> 00:25:09.052<br>you have to tell<br>it to do that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:25:09.052 –> 00:25:12.192<br>There’s one one little checkbox, and if<br>you do that, it’ll just keep recording.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:25:12.252 –> 00:25:15.457<br>The only problem is then you<br>got to somehow get in and stop it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:25:15.597 –> 00:25:17.757<br>Otherwise, it’ll just keep<br>going forever and ever.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:25:17.757 –> 00:25:22.177<br>But yeah, the tools<br>that we’ve got now are so great.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:25:22.432 –> 00:25:24.992<br>When I started podcasting, it was<br>I mean, it wasn’t difficult.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:25:24.992 –> 00:25:27.712<br>Don’t get me wrong. But it<br>there was certainly more difficult<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:25:27.712 –> 00:25:29.952<br>than it is now. And<br>things like this,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:25:29.952 –> 00:25:32.657<br>we’re doing we’re recording<br>something in a browser. Yeah.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:25:32.657 –> 00:25:34.737<br>You know, there’s a little video<br>of me and a little video of<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:25:34.737 –> 00:25:37.457<br>you and you can swap them around<br>and you can add music and<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:25:37.457 –> 00:25:40.577<br>you can add video into the background<br>and all of that kind of stuff.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:25:40.577 –> 00:25:44.842<br>And it’s in a browser. It’s so<br>great. It’s really amazing.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:25:44.842 –> 00:25:50.282<br>We have this kind of things that<br>sometimes you put on the show,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:25:50.282 –> 00:25:53.507<br>you know, like<br>Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:25:53.507 –> 00:25:56.327<br>You can add in little sound effects<br>and you can add in captions.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:25:56.387 –> 00:26:00.222<br>And it’s quite nice because if you<br>can link it to, I don’t know, let’s say,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:26:00.222 –> 00:26:03.232<br>YouTube channel or something, then the comments can come in.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:26:03.232 –> 00:26:06.832<br>And in the platform, they appear as<br>a little, as a little button almost,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:26:06.832 –> 00:26:09.247<br>and you press the button and<br>then it appears on the screen.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:26:09.247 –> 00:26:12.607<br>And so people read and see who said<br>it and all that kind of thing.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:26:12.607 –> 00:26:14.707<br>It’s amazing. We live<br>in an amazing time.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:26:14.832 –> 00:26:17.232<br>I think we can name them<br>because they are so good,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:26:17.232 –> 00:26:19.712<br>and both you and me<br>are using the same tool.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:26:19.712 –> 00:26:27.263<br>So let’s, so it’s wave.video. Yeah.<br>Yeah. It’s a very good platform.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:26:27.263 –> 00:26:31.782<br>And, yeah, as soon as we end<br>the recording, we can have the video,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:26:32.072 –> 00:26:36.872<br>to open in the studio to the editor,<br>I mean. So, yep, very nice.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:26:36.872 –> 00:26:40.617<br>It’s a it really is a great tool, actually.<br>There’s a whole bunch of rivals. There’s<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:26:40.617 –> 00:26:45.897<br>one called Streamyard. There’s another one called Restream, and there’s many.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:26:46.102 –> 00:26:49.302<br>But I settled on this one,<br>because I like the options<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:26:49.302 –> 00:26:51.782<br>that it’s got available, and I<br>also like the fact that it kicks<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:26:51.782 –> 00:26:54.282<br>you out at the end<br>when you click stop.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:26:54.787 –> 00:26:57.587<br>A button appears which says, I don’t<br>know, edit video or something,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:26:57.587 –> 00:26:59.507<br>and you click that. And<br>you’re in a I mean,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:26:59.507 –> 00:27:01.507<br>it’s not Final Cut on<br>the Mac or anything,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:27:01.507 –> 00:27:04.602<br>but it’s a fairly decent<br>video editor where you can<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:27:04.602 –> 00:27:07.082<br>chop out the bits that you<br>didn’t want and, you know,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:27:07.082 –> 00:27:09.802<br>drag things around and put captions<br>on it and all that kind of stuff.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:27:09.802 –> 00:27:11.482<br>And, again, it’s all just<br>done in the browser,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:27:11.482 –> 00:27:13.342<br>and it’s held within<br>this one platform.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:27:13.817 –> 00:27:16.937<br>And then you can publish it to YouTube<br>if you want straight away or,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:27:16.937 –> 00:27:19.997<br>in my case, I do all the things with<br>it. But, yeah, it’s brilliant.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:27:20.217 –> 00:27:22.372<br>Wave.video.<br>Really good. Exactly.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:27:22.372 –> 00:27:26.132<br>And you mentioned Restream,<br>but actually from Wave.video,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:27:26.132 –> 00:27:29.732<br>you can stream to Restream. And<br>from Restream, there are, like,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:27:29.732 –> 00:27:35.347<br>forty, like, usually gaming oriented,<br>lot of platforms. You know?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:27:35.347 –> 00:27:38.162<br>So you can stream to a lot<br>of places. So Yeah.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:27:38.162 –> 00:27:42.842<br>I stream using RMTP or is<br>it RTMP? I can’t remember.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:27:42.842 –> 00:27:44.222<br>But, anyway, that protocol,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:27:45.397 –> 00:27:49.157<br>stream from Wave into a variety<br>of different platforms like<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:27:49.157 –> 00:27:52.697<br>LinkedIn and YouTube, but then I<br>also stream it out to Restream,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:27:53.612 –> 00:27:58.352<br>which then will send it to Twitter<br>because Wave doesn’t go to Twitter,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:27:59.292 –> 00:28:03.807<br>and a couple of other places that I,<br>excuse me, that I can’t remember now.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:28:03.807 –> 00:28:07.427<br>But it yeah. I use it for that as well.<br>It’s good. Yeah. Very very nice.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:28:07.887 –> 00:28:11.292<br>So about this technical<br>equipment and stuff.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:28:11.292 –> 00:28:14.992<br>So you mean over the years, it<br>has become easier and easier?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:28:15.532 –> 00:28:18.447<br>I think the tools that you<br>can get to download onto your<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:28:18.447 –> 00:28:22.307<br>computer or in the browser, honestly,<br>you can do all of it in a browser.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:28:22.527 –> 00:28:25.482<br>There’s not a single bit of<br>the process of creating a podcast<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:28:25.482 –> 00:28:27.582<br>that you cannot do in<br>the browser anymore,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:28:27.962 –> 00:28:31.022<br>but there are definitely there’s<br>no reason to do it that way.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:28:31.322 –> 00:28:33.187<br>So that’s what I meant by<br>the tools have got better.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:28:33.187 –> 00:28:34.627<br>Like, this platform<br>that we’ve got now,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:28:34.627 –> 00:28:37.507<br>this one that we’re using,<br>wave.video, five years ago,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:28:37.507 –> 00:28:41.187<br>there was nothing like this, you<br>know, to set up a live stream.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:28:41.187 –> 00:28:44.532<br>And this will take ten people all<br>at the same time and, you know,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:28:44.532 –> 00:28:47.012<br>and you can change the order<br>and change the shape of<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:28:47.012 –> 00:28:49.752<br>the videos that we’ve gotten.<br>You know, it’s simple UI.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:28:50.032 –> 00:28:55.987<br>Anybody honestly, anybody that has<br>access to a mouse and can see the<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:28:55.987 –> 00:29:00.932<br>screen, anybody can do a live<br>show or in this case,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:29:00.932 –> 00:29:03.592<br>we’re recording it through<br>the exact same platform.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:29:03.732 –> 00:29:07.517<br>We’re not going live anywhere. I<br>don’t think so anyway. No. No.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:29:07.597 –> 00:29:13.437<br>And, and it takes twenty seconds<br>to figure out all the options.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:29:13.437 –> 00:29:16.077<br>I mean, it does, doesn’t it?<br>You log in and there it is,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:29:16.077 –> 00:29:18.332<br>and you just click thing. Oh,<br>it does that and it does that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:29:18.332 –> 00:29:19.872<br>Oh, brilliant.<br>I’m ready to go.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:29:20.172 –> 00:29:23.292<br>So that’s what I meant by the tools<br>have got better, the web based tools.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:29:23.292 –> 00:29:25.887<br>But the Mac apps and<br>things like that, you know,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:29:25.887 –> 00:29:29.727<br>the Logic and the Final Cut Pro,<br>they probably have got better,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:29:29.727 –> 00:29:33.372<br>but I’ve tended to go more<br>towards the online tools now to<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:29:33.372 –> 00:29:35.772<br>record everything just because<br>it’s so much more straightforward<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:29:35.772 –> 00:29:37.692<br>and sharing links is<br>easier. You know,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:29:37.692 –> 00:29:40.732<br>the platforms will share a link<br>automatically to all your<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:29:40.732 –> 00:29:43.907<br>guests and things like that. So, yeah,<br>that’s what I was meaning there.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:29:44.127 –> 00:29:50.762<br>Yep. So, you didn’t really have<br>technical challenges with your show.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:29:50.842 –> 00:29:53.342<br>I’m sorry. I don’t say<br>podcast when there is video.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:29:53.882 –> 00:29:59.777<br>I say show because podcast<br>for me is audio only. Yeah.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:30:00.237 –> 00:30:04.177<br>But so you never<br>had, to face, like,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:30:05.412 –> 00:30:08.452<br>very difficult technical<br>challenges or things that stopped<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:30:08.452 –> 00:30:13.657<br>you to do it, to start it,<br>or to continue? Yeah.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:30:13.737 –> 00:30:17.817<br>So I began the one that’s now This Week in WordPress, I began that<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:30:17.857 –> 00:30:21.277<br>as a prerecorded thing where<br>I would literally stand just there.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:30:21.892 –> 00:30:25.192<br>And it was audio only. And I<br>would\u2026 I put a microphone,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:30:25.252 –> 00:30:30.177<br>a really cheap microphone. Honestly, it<br>was like fifteen dollars or something.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:30:30.177 –> 00:30:31.317<br>It was really cheap.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:30:31.537 –> 00:30:35.297<br>And I put it on a camera<br>stand, and I would have,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:30:35.777 –> 00:30:38.732<br>a piece of paper that I’d written<br>down what I wanted to say and<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:30:38.732 –> 00:30:42.572<br>I click record and read out<br>what I want to say and make up<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:30:42.572 –> 00:30:43.932<br>the rest of it as<br>I went along.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:30:43.932 –> 00:30:46.272<br>And then a few times I had to<br>rerecord it because I accidentally<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:30:46.332 –> 00:30:49.517<br>kicked the mic stand and<br>because the mic was so cheap,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:30:49.517 –> 00:30:51.917<br>you got this boom,<br>this real loud noise.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:30:51.917 –> 00:30:54.717<br>So I had to rerecord it, but<br>that’s how I started that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:30:54.717 –> 00:30:58.992<br>And then now, as soon as these<br>online tools became available,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:30:58.992 –> 00:31:00.932<br>that’s what I just<br>migrated to.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:31:01.232 –> 00:31:04.637<br>So if you are keen to start a<br>podcast or something like that,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:31:04.637 –> 00:31:10.657<br>there really is no,<br>burden to it. It’s dead simple.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:31:10.717 –> 00:31:13.762<br>There’s a little cost.<br>You have to, you know,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:31:13.762 –> 00:31:15.622<br>you have to be having<br>a subscription.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:31:15.682 –> 00:31:19.122<br>I think both you and I were lucky enough<br>to pick up this platform on a deal,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:31:19.122 –> 00:31:21.602<br>which meant that we didn’t have to<br>keep paying a monthly fee,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:31:21.602 –> 00:31:25.987<br>which is great. But, I don’t<br>suppose Wave will be much more than,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:31:25.987 –> 00:31:28.787<br>I don’t know, twenty bucks a month<br>or something like that then.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:31:28.787 –> 00:31:32.302<br>For the business plan that we<br>have, it’s forty eight a month.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:31:32.302 –> 00:31:36.622<br>Oh, gosh. Okay. So you and I did very<br>well off that lifetime deal.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:31:36.622 –> 00:31:39.522<br>I’m quite pleased with that. The<br>only other thing you need is a mic.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:31:40.007 –> 00:31:44.487<br>But, well, actually, if you’re<br>doing a podcast, so audio only,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:31:44.487 –> 00:31:48.032<br>really, all you need is<br>a computer and a mic.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:31:48.972 –> 00:31:52.352<br>And, you know, if you buy a mic<br>which plugs into your computer,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:31:52.492 –> 00:31:54.812<br>that’s even better,<br>because, you know,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:31:54.812 –> 00:31:57.747<br>you can record straight onto<br>the hard disk of your computer.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:31:57.887 –> 00:32:01.407<br>And you don’t need a good mic. You<br>genuinely don’t need a good mic.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:32:01.407 –> 00:32:03.327<br>Obviously, if you’re<br>doing it like I do,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:32:03.327 –> 00:32:05.952<br>it’s kind of<br>a nice thing to have.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:32:06.332 –> 00:32:10.947<br>But thirty bucks, you’ll find<br>something that’s half decent,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:32:11.267 –> 00:32:14.667<br>And I’ve got this thing here called<br>a pop filter. Yeah. I was going to\u2026<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:32:14.867 –> 00:32:17.427<br>Eight dollars or something<br>like that. It’s just cheap.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:32:17.427 –> 00:32:19.912<br>You but you can make it yourself<br>if you get a coat hanger and<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:32:20.072 –> 00:32:23.272<br>bend it and then put some material<br>in between. That’ll work.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:32:23.272 –> 00:32:26.012<br>And this is just to stop the,<br>they’re called plosives.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:32:26.232 –> 00:32:29.957<br>So it’s the p’s and the s’s,<br>that sort of thing from the air<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:32:29.957 –> 00:32:33.007<br>coming out of your<br>mouth hitting the mic. This is a<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:32:33.057 –> 00:32:36.757<br>mic which, has a USB connection,<br>so it goes straight into the back.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:32:36.757 –> 00:32:38.902<br>A lot of mics have this thing<br>called an XLR connection,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:32:38.902 –> 00:32:41.242<br>and that’s the round one<br>with three pins in it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:32:41.302 –> 00:32:43.542<br>And in order to get that<br>to work with a computer,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:32:43.542 –> 00:32:45.302<br>you’ll need some sort<br>of audio interface.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:32:45.302 –> 00:32:49.277<br>So this, I would advise getting<br>USB one to start with because<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:32:49.277 –> 00:32:53.037<br>it just means that you’d have to buy<br>the additional audio interface,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:32:53.037 –> 00:32:56.902<br>and then you can record it straight<br>onto your computer<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:32:56.962 –> 00:33:00.622<br>or do what Patricia’s<br>doing. You don’t even need that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:33:00.622 –> 00:33:03.022<br>You it’s just recording<br>it in the cloud.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:33:03.022 –> 00:33:05.187<br>And then when it’s finished<br>and you click stop,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:33:05.187 –> 00:33:08.307<br>you’ll just download the recording.<br>It’s all done for you.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:33:08.307 –> 00:33:13.572<br>Yeah. I have a wire,<br>a R\u00f8de wireless Go,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:33:13.572 –> 00:33:18.792<br>and it records a backup inside the microphone. You know?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:33:18.932 –> 00:33:24.267<br>In case the audio is not there or didn’t<br>record correctly, so I have a backup,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:33:24.807 –> 00:33:27.207<br>track. Yeah. I have<br>a similar thing.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:33:27.207 –> 00:33:33.092<br>Mine’s, if we’re getting nerdy, I<br>have this, similar. It’s called a DJI.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:33:33.552 –> 00:33:38.052<br>Where’s the camera? It’s like that. And<br>it’s, same thing. This is great.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:33:38.192 –> 00:33:42.257<br>Right? This little bit is the sort<br>of workhorse. It sit look.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:33:42.257 –> 00:33:46.257<br>It sits on top of your camera or it can<br>just be in your pocket or whatever.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:33:46.257 –> 00:33:49.482<br>And then it connects to these little<br>things, which is what you’re wearing,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:33:49.482 –> 00:33:51.742<br>basically, isn’t it? It’s got<br>a little mic on the top,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:33:51.882 –> 00:33:55.257<br>and you can attach this little,<br>what they call a dead cat. Yes.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:33:55.257 –> 00:33:58.537<br>And attach the little dead cat so that<br>if it’s windy or something like that,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:33:58.537 –> 00:34:00.617<br>it’ll get rid of<br>a little bit of that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:34:00.617 –> 00:34:04.557<br>And then it’s brilliant because<br>you just press go on this, this,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:34:05.072 –> 00:34:06.752<br>and it records it in<br>multiple places.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:34:06.752 –> 00:34:08.992<br>You know, it records it<br>onto here and onto these,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:34:08.992 –> 00:34:11.632<br>and then you can download it onto<br>your computer. Anyway, sorry.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:34:11.632 –> 00:34:14.727<br>I got a bit nerdy there.<br>Didn’t I? That’s great.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:34:15.027 –> 00:34:19.107<br>So you and me are ready to do some<br>TikTok like a street interview,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:34:19.107 –> 00:34:22.192<br>you know? Oh, yeah. Yeah. I<br>kinda bought it with the with<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:34:22.192 –> 00:34:24.532<br>the idea that’s what<br>I’d do at WordCamps.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:34:24.992 –> 00:34:28.632<br>But, but I quickly discovered that most people at WordCamps, they<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:34:28.652 –> 00:34:33.377<br>don’t really wanna be accosted by me, you know, and have an interview there.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:34:33.377 –> 00:34:36.577<br>And I kinda like to set<br>them up now so that I know that<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:34:36.577 –> 00:34:40.562<br>that person is aware of what<br>they’re, you know, expected to do,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:34:40.562 –> 00:34:43.202<br>and they’ve got time to do it<br>in and all that kind of stuff.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:34:43.202 –> 00:34:45.507<br>So I’ve never<br>really used them.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:34:46.467 –> 00:34:50.567<br>I’ve tried it, but it didn’t<br>sit too comfortably with me.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:34:50.627 –> 00:34:54.772<br>So maybe you can go in the streets<br>and you ask a question like,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:34:54.932 –> 00:34:57.812<br>do you know what is<br>WordPress? Yeah. Yeah.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:34:57.812 –> 00:35:01.512<br>And, like, we could do, like I<br>do the same and then we compare.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:35:01.812 –> 00:35:06.077<br>Oh gosh. I am not committing to this,<br>Patricia, because I know I won’t do it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:35:06.857 –> 00:35:09.117<br>Okay. Okay.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:35:09.257 –> 00:35:12.452<br>So if there is no,<br>technical challenge and,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:35:12.932 –> 00:35:16.392<br>no challenge with people because<br>you said there was never<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:35:16.452 –> 00:35:18.532<br>anything that you<br>had to cut.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:35:18.532 –> 00:35:21.977<br>I mean, people in the WordPress<br>community are mostly nice.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:35:22.837 –> 00:35:27.562<br>So there was no, like, bashing or<br>stuff like that. You never\u2026 No. No. And<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:35:27.562 –> 00:35:32.742<br>that is miraculous, actually. And that hadn’t really occurred to me too much.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:35:32.742 –> 00:35:36.247<br>But I think you’re right. And,<br>also, it’s a big enough,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:35:36.967 –> 00:35:41.422<br>it’s a big enough ecosystem or could<br>let’s say community that, no.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:35:41.422 –> 00:35:43.262<br>Ecosystem, I think, is better<br>because there’s quite a lot of<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:35:43.262 –> 00:35:47.042<br>people who use WordPress who are not<br>actually part of the community,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:35:47.182 –> 00:35:48.462<br>probably not even<br>aware about it,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:35:48.462 –> 00:35:50.622<br>but they might pick up a WordPress<br>podcast because they’ve<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:35:50.622 –> 00:35:53.637<br>Googled something that they wanna,<br>you know, want an answer to.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:35:54.017 –> 00:35:55.537<br>It’s big enough that<br>there’s an audience,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:35:55.537 –> 00:35:57.857<br>but it’s also big enough<br>that there’s a lot<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:35:57.857 –> 00:36:00.492<br>of people out there who have<br>things that they want to get out,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:36:00.492 –> 00:36:03.852<br>whether that’s, you know, something<br>that they did or a project<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:36:03.852 –> 00:36:06.992<br>that they’re working on or a<br>plugin or a theme or a block.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:36:07.347 –> 00:36:10.307<br>There’s always stuff to talk<br>about. It never runs out.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:36:10.307 –> 00:36:13.527<br>And if it was a teeny,<br>tiny, teeny community,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:36:13.827 –> 00:36:15.927<br>maybe having a podcast<br>would be more tricky.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:36:16.292 –> 00:36:20.052<br>I mean, in the other direction,<br>you know, there’s you know,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:36:20.052 –> 00:36:22.532<br>if I was talking about smartphones<br>or something, obviously,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:36:22.532 –> 00:36:24.052<br>that community would<br>be even bigger.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:36:24.052 –> 00:36:26.517<br>It would be more or less<br>all of the world,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:36:26.517 –> 00:36:29.237<br>but WordPress is big enough<br>that you’ve got an audience and<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:36:29.237 –> 00:36:31.897<br>you’ve got guests<br>enough to keep going.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:36:32.572 –> 00:36:37.152<br>But it’s not too overwhelming in<br>terms of its size. Yeah. Yeah.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:36:37.452 –> 00:36:44.107<br>Yeah. So, what I wanted<br>to say is that you never had to face,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:36:44.107 –> 00:36:51.282<br>like, to say to someone to<br>shut up, actually. No. No. No.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:36:51.282 –> 00:36:55.382<br>Because yeah. Because of<br>this friendly community we have.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:36:55.497 –> 00:36:59.657<br>I get ahead of that a bit.<br>Sorry to interrupt. Shall I stop?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:36:59.657 –> 00:37:02.797<br>Do you wanna No. Please go<br>ahead. Okay. Thank you.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:37:03.302 –> 00:37:07.222<br>I get ahead of that by creating<br>show notes, which I share before.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:37:07.222 –> 00:37:11.007<br>So every episode, I write out<br>a whole bunch of things,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:37:11.087 –> 00:37:14.627<br>and the template for that<br>begins with some expectations.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:37:15.087 –> 00:37:18.547<br>And one of the expectations is things<br>like, you know, find a quiet spot,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:37:19.167 –> 00:37:24.352<br>dedicate some time to it, have a,<br>if you’ve got a mic, use a mic.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:37:24.352 –> 00:37:27.392<br>If you’ve got headphones, put<br>the headphones on, yada, yada,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:37:27.392 –> 00:37:33.557<br>yada, yada. And also, if I’m in<br>the mood, I’ll write the questions out.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:37:33.557 –> 00:37:36.612<br>Some some questions just to<br>kick the conversation off.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:37:36.692 –> 00:37:39.412<br>Also give them an opportunity<br>to write what they wanna say so<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:37:39.412 –> 00:37:41.412<br>that I can be led by<br>them a bit as well.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:37:41.412 –> 00:37:44.052<br>And that, I think,<br>would, you know,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:37:44.052 –> 00:37:48.437<br>anybody faced with that documentation<br>would think, oh, okay.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:37:48.497 –> 00:37:52.257<br>I need to have something to say.<br>And I’ve always done that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:37:52.257 –> 00:37:54.257<br>I’ve always created those show<br>notes because it just felt like<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:37:54.257 –> 00:37:56.472<br>the best way to sort<br>of prepare people,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:37:57.252 –> 00:38:01.192<br>and maybe that’s part of it<br>as well, but I don’t know. Yeah.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:38:01.812 –> 00:38:06.437<br>So you never faced any problem<br>by what I hear.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:38:06.437 –> 00:38:08.997<br>So that’s great. And it’s<br>I’m very lucky. Yeah. Yeah.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:38:08.997 –> 00:38:12.437<br>And it’s actually a good news<br>for me because I’m starting<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:38:12.437 –> 00:38:15.422<br>with that WPMondo<br>show. Sure.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:38:15.422 –> 00:38:19.102<br>And we have more people<br>because the goal is to have<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:38:19.102 –> 00:38:23.897<br>other people interview in other languages. Okay. Nice. That’s, yeah,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:38:23.987 –> 00:38:29.507<br>I love everything is, whatever is<br>about languages and whatever is about,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:38:29.507 –> 00:38:34.632<br>like, cultural and differences that<br>we can all learn from each other.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:38:34.632 –> 00:38:36.872<br>That’s, I’m very<br>passionate about this,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:38:36.872 –> 00:38:40.197<br>so I want to this to be<br>shown in this, in this show.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:38:40.197 –> 00:38:43.577<br>I already had someone,<br>for French that I will,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:38:44.197 –> 00:38:49.762<br>publish soon before or after you. I don’t<br>know. So that’s great.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:38:50.142 –> 00:38:55.762<br>And, yeah. So because you never faced<br>any challenge, so that’s wonderful.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:38:55.902 –> 00:38:59.357<br>And as I said, a good news.<br>So maybe we could talk about,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:39:00.637 –> 00:39:07.192<br>what would be your advice for<br>an aspiring podcaster or web<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:39:07.192 –> 00:39:11.612<br>show host or someone who<br>want to start? Yeah.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:39:11.752 –> 00:39:14.507<br>As you said<br>before, just start.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:39:15.127 –> 00:39:19.207<br>I don’t have a lot of wisdom, but<br>I’ve got a couple of things,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:39:19.207 –> 00:39:22.242<br>but they’re not particularly<br>profound, but here they come.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:39:22.802 –> 00:39:26.562<br>The first thing is if<br>just commit, do it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:39:26.562 –> 00:39:30.182<br>And, you know, if after a few weeks<br>you’re not enjoying it, then,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:39:30.497 –> 00:39:34.417<br>you know, cease and that’s that you’ve<br>not enjoyed it. It wasn’t for you.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:39:34.417 –> 00:39:37.457<br>But I had a weekly cadence,<br>which I just stopped to.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:39:37.457 –> 00:39:39.297<br>And it’s a miracle to<br>me that that happened.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:39:39.297 –> 00:39:43.922<br>So that would be my first bit of advice.<br>Just set a cadence and just go for it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:39:44.962 –> 00:39:50.567<br>The second bit of advice, I’ve now<br>forgotten, which is absolutely ridiculous,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:39:50.567 –> 00:39:53.527<br>but that is the state of my brain.<br>What was the second bit of advice?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:39:53.527 –> 00:39:56.502<br>It was something along<br>the lines of, oh, yeah.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:39:56.502 –> 00:40:01.402<br>Don’t forget your second bit of advice.<br>No. It wasn’t that. I’ve forgotten.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:40:01.462 –> 00:40:03.387<br>I had two bits, but<br>one of them’s gone.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:40:03.387 –> 00:40:07.067<br>So the first one I’ll stick with<br>is cadence. Oh oh oh oh, yeah.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:40:07.067 –> 00:40:10.527<br>No. I’ve remembered it. It’s slight<br>aberration of the brain there.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:40:11.467 –> 00:40:14.282<br>Is be quiet and listen.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:40:15.142 –> 00:40:17.322<br>That is to say, if your<br>job is to interview,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:40:18.502 –> 00:40:22.547<br>nobody’s tuning into<br>my podcast to listen to me.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:40:23.087 –> 00:40:25.727<br>They’re coming to<br>listen to the guest. Right?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:40:25.727 –> 00:40:26.927<br>That mean that<br>stands to reason.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:40:26.927 –> 00:40:30.422<br>When you watch a chat show on telly,<br>we have this one in the UK called,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:40:30.422 –> 00:40:32.842<br>you know, Graham Norton and<br>there’s a bunch of others.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:40:32.862 –> 00:40:35.322<br>Actually, he’s maybe a bit of an exception because he’s quite<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:40:35.322 –> 00:40:37.722<br>a character, but I’m not really<br>tuning in to watch Graham.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:40:37.767 –> 00:40:40.887<br>I’m tuning in because this guest<br>is on and this guest is on,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:40:40.887 –> 00:40:42.567<br>and that would be<br>the same with the podcast.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:40:42.567 –> 00:40:46.842<br>So give the guest time to<br>talk, listen to what they say,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:40:46.842 –> 00:40:51.422<br>and respond to what they say so that<br>the conversation goes on a journey.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:40:51.482 –> 00:40:54.927<br>It’s not just the same<br>thing every time. Actually,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:40:54.927 –> 00:40:57.487<br>there are some podcasts in the WordPress space that buck that trend.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:40:57.487 –> 00:41:00.642<br>So Michelle Frechette has a podcast<br>where she, the whole premise<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:41:00.642 –> 00:41:03.442<br>is that she asked the exact<br>same questions to every guest,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:41:03.442 –> 00:41:05.842<br>and that works because you<br>know what’s coming. Right?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:41:05.842 –> 00:41:10.197<br>But you’re still listening to<br>the guest. So listen. WP Coffee Talk.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:41:10.197 –> 00:41:14.037<br>That’s right. Yeah. Thank you.<br>And, so that would be it. Yeah.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:41:14.037 –> 00:41:16.932<br>Those two bits. Listen to<br>the guest and the other one,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:41:16.932 –> 00:41:22.292<br>which I’ve now forgotten. Do it<br>and commit to a cadence. No.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:41:22.292 –> 00:41:25.017<br>I was joking. I was joking<br>that, though. Okay.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:41:26.197 –> 00:41:29.397<br>But, I think to each<br>their own format. Right.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:41:29.397 –> 00:41:34.082<br>I think, I was interviewed by,<br>Remkus de Vries on. Yeah. Yeah.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:41:34.082 –> 00:41:38.882<br>Nice. Within WordPress. And he<br>said it’s not an interview.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:41:38.882 –> 00:41:41.682<br>It’s a conversation.<br>So it was a bit different than<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:41:41.682 –> 00:41:46.487<br>what you say because, also, we had<br>a conversation with also his part.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:41:46.487 –> 00:41:50.572<br>You know? So that was<br>a bit different,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:41:50.572 –> 00:41:55.292<br>but I think every format is good<br>to try or to test. And Yeah.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:41:55.292 –> 00:41:58.332<br>And I think what I maybe I<br>misspoke there or at least<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:41:58.332 –> 00:42:00.387<br>misrepresented what<br>I was trying to say.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:42:00.387 –> 00:42:05.047<br>What I meant by listen was<br>whatever comes out of the guest’s<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:42:05.107 –> 00:42:08.122<br>mouth should inform<br>what you say next.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:42:08.422 –> 00:42:11.452<br>So that it is a conversation,<br>if you know what I mean. So it isn’t<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:42:11.452 –> 00:42:14.682<br>that you just be quiet, let them speak, and then you say something.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:42:14.682 –> 00:42:18.797<br>It’s more that, okay. They said that.<br>I didn’t expect to hear that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:42:19.077 –> 00:42:22.197<br>Well, we’ll go with that<br>rather than this list of things<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:42:22.197 –> 00:42:24.752<br>that I’ve got written down.<br>We’ll go on a journey and<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:42:24.752 –> 00:42:27.472<br>see where it ends up<br>and, and that yeah.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:42:27.472 –> 00:42:30.592<br>So I think actually we’re in<br>agreement about that. Yeah. Yeah.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:42:30.592 –> 00:42:34.627<br>Yeah. And I actually had<br>written some topics for you,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:42:34.627 –> 00:42:37.947<br>and I didn’t even look at it<br>because Yeah. There you go.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:42:38.227 –> 00:42:41.452<br>In the flow of conversation is<br>like if I was having<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:42:41.452 –> 00:42:45.452<br>a drink with you at a WordCamp or<br>Right. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:42:45.452 –> 00:42:46.892<br>Yeah. It’d be a bit weird<br>if at a WordCamp,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:42:46.892 –> 00:42:51.167<br>you went you took out a list of<br>questions whilst we’re here,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:42:51.167 –> 00:42:53.587<br>whilst we had a chat. Yeah.<br>That exactly like that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:42:53.727 –> 00:42:55.087<br>And I think<br>people are really,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:42:55.647 –> 00:42:57.962<br>people are really fascinated<br>by those kinds of conversations,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:42:57.962 –> 00:43:00.282<br>aren’t they? We all<br>love, you know,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:43:00.282 –> 00:43:01.722<br>hearing what other<br>people have got to say.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:43:01.722 –> 00:43:04.522<br>And on a podcast, that’s<br>probably more true than ever.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:43:04.522 –> 00:43:08.627<br>You are tuning in expecting to<br>hear that kind of conversation.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:43:08.627 –> 00:43:11.962<br>So, yeah, it just works.<br>It’s a nice format. Yes.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:43:13.242 –> 00:43:17.042<br>Do you have anything<br>you want to address, any other topic<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:43:17.042 –> 00:43:20.402<br>that we have not been talking<br>about, or you want<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:43:20.402 –> 00:43:24.607<br>to keep going on personal things,<br>or what do you think of the future?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:43:24.787 –> 00:43:28.947<br>I mean, I think the future is<br>really bright for WordPress.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:43:28.947 –> 00:43:32.182<br>I know that there’s a lot of<br>change happening in the projects.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:43:32.342 –> 00:43:35.862<br>We’ve got WordPress 6.6<br>today. Yes.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:43:36.262 –> 00:43:38.342<br>Is coming out today, so<br>that’ll be interesting.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:43:38.342 –> 00:43:41.687<br>But, yeah, WordPress is<br>over the last, five years,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:43:41.687 –> 00:43:44.407<br>but really ramped up in<br>the last couple of years.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:43:44.407 –> 00:43:48.967<br>Lots and lots of change, and<br>I have no reason to doubt<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:43:48.967 –> 00:43:51.262<br>that the thing,<br>the software, the product,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:43:51.262 –> 00:43:53.502<br>the community is gonna go<br>from strength to strength.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:43:53.502 –> 00:43:55.762<br>It certainly feels<br>that way to me.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:43:56.807 –> 00:44:00.407<br>The other thing to mention<br>is that if you,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:44:01.287 –> 00:44:05.132<br>if you don’t like WP Builds, I do<br>another podcast actually,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:44:05.692 –> 00:44:08.032<br>in the WordPress space,<br>which is called Jukebox,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:44:08.092 –> 00:44:10.912<br>and it’s on the<br>WP Tavern website.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:44:10.972 –> 00:44:13.792<br>So if you go to<br>WPTavern.com,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:44:13.977 –> 00:44:17.197<br>depending on when you listen to this<br>and when you go to that website,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:44:17.257 –> 00:44:20.537<br>I don’t know where that podcast will be,<br>but it’ll certainly be in the menu.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:44:20.537 –> 00:44:24.592<br>If you go to the podcast menu at the top<br>right of the screen on a desktop,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:44:24.592 –> 00:44:27.392<br>there’ll be episodes will be in there.<br>And that’s, that’s another tape.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:44:27.392 –> 00:44:31.012<br>That’s, there’s a little<br>bit more, how to describe it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:44:32.207 –> 00:44:34.687<br>It’s a different<br>different flavor to it,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:44:34.687 –> 00:44:37.187<br>and there’s a lot of live<br>stuff that I do at events.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:44:37.567 –> 00:44:41.602<br>So I go to WordCamps and<br>actually interview people who’ve<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:44:41.602 –> 00:44:43.802<br>just come off the stage<br>and things like that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:44:43.802 –> 00:44:46.802<br>And, I don’t actually do it<br>in the in the public arena.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:44:46.802 –> 00:44:50.007<br>We have a media room at those<br>kind of events, so I do them there.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:44:50.167 –> 00:44:53.367<br>But it’s a different flavor, and it’s<br>obviously a different publication.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:44:53.367 –> 00:44:55.547<br>And it’s not one that<br>I’m in charge of.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:44:56.567 –> 00:45:00.002<br>It’s different, and it’s going through a period of change at the minute.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:45:00.002 –> 00:45:02.162<br>So we’ll see how that<br>works out. Yeah. Yeah.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:45:02.162 –> 00:45:05.362<br>It’s not it must not be the same<br>if you have to do it,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:45:06.227 –> 00:45:09.507<br>even if, I know that you have<br>no pressure about the content,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:45:09.507 –> 00:45:11.507<br>but you have to do it<br>seriously, you know.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:45:11.507 –> 00:45:15.042<br>On your own, I mean, if something happen, it’s your own.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:45:15.042 –> 00:45:16.872<br>It’s your choice. You know? It’s. Right.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:45:17.032 –> 00:45:21.212<br>It’s no one is going to<br>tell you that it’s not,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:45:21.832 –> 00:45:25.077<br>going to do it because it’s yours,<br>and it’s like your house.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:45:25.617 –> 00:45:28.097<br>Yeah. Yeah. There’s<br>definitely there’s definitely a<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:45:28.097 –> 00:45:31.377<br>sort of freedom that comes with having<br>your own thing, whereas it’s,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:45:32.342 –> 00:45:35.482<br>I have a different hat that I wear<br>if you like when I do that podcast.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:45:35.542 –> 00:45:38.922<br>And I think in many ways,<br>it’s for the betterment<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:45:38.982 –> 00:45:40.737<br>of that podcast,<br>the Tavern one,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:45:40.897 –> 00:45:42.917<br>because it does create<br>a different sort of atmosphere,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:45:42.977 –> 00:45:46.917<br>and we have a different type of guests<br>on, and I cover things differently.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:45:47.057 –> 00:45:51.152<br>I don’t get into sort of self<br>promotional stuff on the Tavern.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:45:51.152 –> 00:45:54.032<br>It’s more community based and that,<br>you know, those kind of things.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:45:54.032 –> 00:45:55.152<br>What’s going on with<br>the community?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:45:55.152 –> 00:45:57.977<br>What’s going on with the platform,<br>the software, all of that?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:45:58.137 –> 00:46:01.977<br>Whereas on WP Builds, I sort of have<br>that license because it’s mine.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:46:01.977 –> 00:46:04.057<br>I can, you know, if somebody<br>wants to come on and they just<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:46:04.057 –> 00:46:07.357<br>wanted to talk a long time about<br>their product, that’s fine.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:46:07.552 –> 00:46:10.992<br>We can do that. So, yeah,<br>different things. Sorry.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:46:10.992 –> 00:46:16.657<br>So very self serving all of that. I,<br>I apologise. No. It’s good.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:46:16.977 –> 00:46:21.697<br>On the WP Tavern podcast, I listened,<br>to a few of the episodes you did.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:46:22.177 –> 00:46:25.762<br>And I love your energy and your<br>enthusiasm when you like something.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:46:25.762 –> 00:46:29.622<br>I mean, we can really hear it. You know?<br>It’s Oh, yeah. Oh, that’s amazing.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:46:30.002 –> 00:46:33.117<br>Yeah. Yeah. I really do like a lot<br>of what’s going on there as well.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:46:33.117 –> 00:46:35.997<br>And that’s one of the<br>things I have to pinch<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:46:35.997 –> 00:46:40.372<br>myself about is that, you know,<br>I just get to talk to people.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:46:40.372 –> 00:46:44.232<br>That’s literally what I<br>do is talk for a job.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:46:44.532 –> 00:46:49.387<br>And sometimes these people<br>are really quite profound.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:46:49.387 –> 00:46:52.767<br>You know, they come up with<br>some innovation or some thing,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:46:52.827 –> 00:46:54.987<br>some part of the community<br>that I’d never heard of,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:46:54.987 –> 00:46:59.622<br>and it really is very often I sort of go,<br>Wait. Hang on. What did you just say?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:46:59.682 –> 00:47:02.642<br>No. Let’s go through that again.<br>I didn’t fully understand.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:47:02.642 –> 00:47:05.602<br>We rehash it and get to the bottom<br>of whatever it is, but it’s yeah.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:47:05.602 –> 00:47:10.527<br>It’s nice. One that was,<br>specifically, like, you were so amazed.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:47:10.527 –> 00:47:14.207<br>It was, I think, with, about<br>the Activity Pub and you had,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:47:14.527 –> 00:47:17.552<br>Matthias Pfefferle on. Yeah.<br>Yeah. I love all that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:47:17.552 –> 00:47:21.552<br>That so this is things like the Mastodon and the Fediverse and stuff.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:47:21.552 –> 00:47:25.537<br>And, I just think that’s such<br>an interesting take on social networks,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:47:25.537 –> 00:47:29.457<br>and it’s about time, would be<br>my take on it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:47:29.457 –> 00:47:32.257<br>So it’s less of a<br>walled garden.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:47:32.257 –> 00:47:35.452<br>So it’s like Twitter,<br>but it’s federated,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:47:35.592 –> 00:47:38.072<br>so it’s not owned by<br>one particular entity,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:47:38.072 –> 00:47:40.972<br>and you can migrate your accounts<br>between all the different servers.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:47:41.227 –> 00:47:44.347<br>It’s well worth checking out. Yeah. Yeah.<br>Yeah. Thank you. That was a good one.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:47:44.347 –> 00:47:48.667<br>I enjoyed that. Indeed.<br>So thank you so much.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:47:48.667 –> 00:47:54.042<br>If you want to add anything else<br>you can. No. Not really.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:47:54.042 –> 00:47:57.662<br>I think I’ve probably done enough<br>promotion to last a lifetime.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:47:58.122 –> 00:48:00.097<br>I would just like to say thank<br>you for inviting me on.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:48:00.097 –> 00:48:02.097<br>I’m enormously<br>humbled that you,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:48:02.497 –> 00:48:06.097<br>you would want to talk to<br>me about podcasting. That’s great.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:48:06.097 –> 00:48:08.462<br>I really appreciate the opportunity<br>to have a chat with you.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:48:08.462 –> 00:48:11.042<br>It’s lovely. That<br>was a great pleasure.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:48:11.182 –> 00:48:16.082<br>And I’m very much<br>looking forward to see you next time.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:48:16.867 –> 00:48:19.907<br>In another WordCamp somewhere.<br>Yeah. I’ll be there.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:48:19.907 –> 00:48:21.907<br>I’ll as many as I can<br>get to, I get to.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:48:22.307 –> 00:48:25.847<br>You know, commitments of life get in<br>the way, but the ones that I can,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:48:25.907 –> 00:48:30.392<br>I’m there with, you know,<br>I’m there in heart, soul,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:48:31.092 –> 00:48:34.692<br>body, and mind. Yes. Something<br>like that. And heart. Yeah.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:48:34.692 –> 00:48:39.177<br>Exactly. Okay. So thank you so<br>much, Nathan, and see you soon.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>00:48:39.177 –> 00:48:41.437<br>Yeah. Thank you. Lovely<br>to chat with you.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>What a friendly conversation with Nathan! In our “Host the Host” series, we shine the spotlight on those who usually highlight others. Welcome to Episode 3 Watch on YouTube, click the like button \ud83d\udc4d, subscribe to the channel, activate the bell \ud83d\udd14 and share the link \ud83d\udd17 to your social media! Thank you! Description Today, […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":85,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[5],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-84","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-episodes"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/cmsmondo.com\/english\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/84","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/cmsmondo.com\/english\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/cmsmondo.com\/english\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/cmsmondo.com\/english\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/cmsmondo.com\/english\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=84"}],"version-history":[{"count":2,"href":"https:\/\/cmsmondo.com\/english\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/84\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":89,"href":"https:\/\/cmsmondo.com\/english\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/84\/revisions\/89"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/cmsmondo.com\/english\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/85"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/cmsmondo.com\/english\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=84"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/cmsmondo.com\/english\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=84"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/cmsmondo.com\/english\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=84"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}